3 ms·

did you rtfa? the problem these guys are facing is not the encounter. its that the images and video can incriminate and cause repercussions for people not at

by mSparks 10y ago

did you rtfa? the problem these guys are facing is not the encounter. its that the images and video can incriminate and cause repercussions for people not at the scene but stored on the camera. such as those guys with you ak47s you are complaining about who were helping the journalist get their story of governmental abuse of power. or that police officer confessing his coworkers corruption.

lb1lf 10y ago
Oh, I read the article all right, no worries. I was just thinking of a slightly wider use case than 'I am Laura Poitras and am concerned about interference from US state actors'. To but it differently - what would (possibly) help a poor PJ facing down a truckload of IS would also help Laura Poitras. After all, some guys with AKs may help you get a story on the abuses of other guys with AKs - who may see things differently. (Though I'll admit I think that is a moot point in many situations - say, reporting from Raqqa it isn't very likely that anyone you encounter would believe you if you showed them all the wonderful decoy photos you'd taken of the shot-out remains of all the touristy sights - and not a single photo showing anything which could be construed as aiding one side or the other in the conflict.)
- mSparks 10y ago
  but you seem to be talking about situations where concealed camera equipment is more suitable, or even just your run of the mill phone. bit strawman? what they are asking for isn't technically difficult or even that expensive to develop.
  - lb1lf 10y ago
    Concealed camera equipment is, to the best of my knowledge, mostly avoided for conflict reportage purposes; the constraints on quality are simply too limiting. (Besides, I guess it often falls in under my earlier comment - that simply being there is seen as suspicious; camera gear won't make much of a difference in that case.) Strawmen's got nothing to do with it; I just don't see why one should try to make a product with an unneccesarily limited set of use cases. a) Encrypted storage would be a benefit for both Laura Poitras and just about anyone else; true. b) Adding steganography does not put Laura Poitras at a disadvantage; however, it may provide a benefit to other users under other use cases. Also, it is not technically very difficult or even that expensive to develop. c) To some users, the existence of encrypted, visible files could be just as bad - perhaps even worse - than unencrypted files; after all - you are basically showing the person challenging you that you've got something to hide. So - I think adding the option of plausible deniability will add negligible complexity while making the potential user base larger, thus making a camera (or memory card) incorporating this technology more commercially viable - benefitting both the Laura Poitrases and the others. No strawman.
    - mSparks 10y ago
      but thats the strawman. "This is too limited because it doesnt help people taking the camera" when the whole problem has nothing to do with taking the camera and everything to do with what happens afterwards. the equivelent to "there is no point in encrypting your banking transactions because it wont stop someone stealing your wallet on the street" -> typical strawman.
      - lb1lf 10y ago
        -I'd respectfully suggest that your idea of a strawman differs from mine. A strawman would be me saying something like "This is a good idea, but it is obvious it needs quantum cryptography to succeed, and as we all know, that is hardly commercially available in a form factor you could incorporate in a digital camera, hence the idea will never fly." (Yes, this is taken almost ad absurdum - but, hey, this is the Internet, after all. :)) Me arguing that this is a good idea which could be even better at no disadvantage to Poitras et al and for negligible extra development, however, is hardly a strawman. Then again, I may be misunderstanding you altogether; English is my third language and I am struggling to understand what you mean when you suggest that I (paraphrased) say "This is too limited because it doesn't help people taking the camera" Even Poitras' suggestion is intended to help once someone has taken the camera; you do not need encryption or anything per se as long as the camera is in your possession. (Assuming it is offline!) - It is when someone - be it the US Govt, a competitor, your friendly neighbourhood grunt, some guerilla in a disagreeable part of the world has taken it that limiting access to the images/footage is necessary.
        mSparks 10y ago
        ->This is a good idea, but it is obvious it needs quantum cryptography to succeed not a million miles from ->I think you'd still only have a solution which is workable against a very limited set of adversaries - namely, the ones who play by the rules, more or less. which is exactly why i said "a bit strawman" perhaps where we differ is you think encryption only keeps information safe from those who play by the rules?
dang 10y ago
> did you rtfa? You've been posting quite a few comments that break the site guidelines. We ban accounts that do this, so please read the rules and follow them: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

by mSparks 10y ago

lb1lf 10y ago

Oh, I read the article all right, no worries. I was just thinking of a slightly wider use case than 'I am Laura Poitras and am concerned about interference from US state actors'. To but it differently - what would (possibly) help a poor PJ facing down a truckload of IS would also help Laura Poitras. After all, some guys with AKs may help you get a story on the abuses of other guys with AKs - who may see things differently. (Though I'll admit I think that is a moot point in many situations - say, reporting from Raqqa it isn't very likely that anyone you encounter would believe you if you showed them all the wonderful decoy photos you'd taken of the shot-out remains of all the touristy sights - and not a single photo showing anything which could be construed as aiding one side or the other in the conflict.)

mSparks 10y ago
but you seem to be talking about situations where concealed camera equipment is more suitable, or even just your run of the mill phone. bit strawman? what they are asking for isn't technically difficult or even that expensive to develop.
- lb1lf 10y ago
  Concealed camera equipment is, to the best of my knowledge, mostly avoided for conflict reportage purposes; the constraints on quality are simply too limiting. (Besides, I guess it often falls in under my earlier comment - that simply being there is seen as suspicious; camera gear won't make much of a difference in that case.) Strawmen's got nothing to do with it; I just don't see why one should try to make a product with an unneccesarily limited set of use cases. a) Encrypted storage would be a benefit for both Laura Poitras and just about anyone else; true. b) Adding steganography does not put Laura Poitras at a disadvantage; however, it may provide a benefit to other users under other use cases. Also, it is not technically very difficult or even that expensive to develop. c) To some users, the existence of encrypted, visible files could be just as bad - perhaps even worse - than unencrypted files; after all - you are basically showing the person challenging you that you've got something to hide. So - I think adding the option of plausible deniability will add negligible complexity while making the potential user base larger, thus making a camera (or memory card) incorporating this technology more commercially viable - benefitting both the Laura Poitrases and the others. No strawman.
  - mSparks 10y ago
    but thats the strawman. "This is too limited because it doesnt help people taking the camera" when the whole problem has nothing to do with taking the camera and everything to do with what happens afterwards. the equivelent to "there is no point in encrypting your banking transactions because it wont stop someone stealing your wallet on the street" -> typical strawman.
    - lb1lf 10y ago
      -I'd respectfully suggest that your idea of a strawman differs from mine. A strawman would be me saying something like "This is a good idea, but it is obvious it needs quantum cryptography to succeed, and as we all know, that is hardly commercially available in a form factor you could incorporate in a digital camera, hence the idea will never fly." (Yes, this is taken almost ad absurdum - but, hey, this is the Internet, after all. :)) Me arguing that this is a good idea which could be even better at no disadvantage to Poitras et al and for negligible extra development, however, is hardly a strawman. Then again, I may be misunderstanding you altogether; English is my third language and I am struggling to understand what you mean when you suggest that I (paraphrased) say "This is too limited because it doesn't help people taking the camera" Even Poitras' suggestion is intended to help once someone has taken the camera; you do not need encryption or anything per se as long as the camera is in your possession. (Assuming it is offline!) - It is when someone - be it the US Govt, a competitor, your friendly neighbourhood grunt, some guerilla in a disagreeable part of the world has taken it that limiting access to the images/footage is necessary.
      - mSparks 10y ago
        ->This is a good idea, but it is obvious it needs quantum cryptography to succeed not a million miles from ->I think you'd still only have a solution which is workable against a very limited set of adversaries - namely, the ones who play by the rules, more or less. which is exactly why i said "a bit strawman" perhaps where we differ is you think encryption only keeps information safe from those who play by the rules?

dang 10y ago

> did you rtfa? You've been posting quite a few comments that break the site guidelines. We ban accounts that do this, so please read the rules and follow them: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html