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Maybe if the CO2 quotas wasn't in reality a ponzy scheme it would have made it easier to sell this doomsday scenario to the avarage joe. Its quite obvious that

by EJTH 10y ago

Maybe if the CO2 quotas wasn't in reality a ponzy scheme it would have made it easier to sell this doomsday scenario to the avarage joe. Its quite obvious that climate change has grown into an industry of lobbyists and worthless quotas swapping hands for billions of dollars. An absolutely worthless industry that has no progress to show even after decades. The only real solution to global warming caused by man is depopulating the planet (Think Georgia guidestones) is that really something you want to do?

emodendroket 10y ago
Yes, "cap and trade" plans are completely inadequate to address the problem, but "the only real solution is man depopulating the planet" seems questionable given that burning fossil fuels is not a sine qua non of continued human existence.
- EJTH 10y ago
  Since the human race is no way near a decline in growth, reducing fossil fuel use is like pissing your pants to keep yourself warm.
  - kbart 10y ago
    "reducing fossil fuel use is like pissing your pants to keep yourself warm." Bullshit, there are already many countries(0) that generate >90% of their electricity using renewable sources. Given the fast growing electric motor industry, we could get rid of fossil fuels pretty fast. It's only a political question, not technological. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_production_from_renewable_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electrici...
    - EJTH 10y ago
      Yes, and so what? 90% less fossil fuel spend in electricity does not equal a 90% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions for a person (Humans emit greenhouse gasses directly and indirectly for alot of other purposes than electricity). So maybe you can fit 90% more people into the equation if you reduce their emissions sufficiently, but that will be voided by the exponential growth of the human population within generations.
      - emodendroket 10y ago
        It's less than clear that the human population is going to continue growing at breakneck speed when industrialization is generally associated with much lower birth rates, and even staving off the problem for "generations" would be a success.
        EJTH 10y ago
        correlation does not mean causation... China had a birthrate boom during their industrilaization, so did Syria. It is a culture thing, not a socioeconomic thing imo.
        emodendroket 10y ago
        > Findings from a 2015 government census show that the average Chinese woman has 1.05 children — a legacy of the one-child policy that changed on Jan. 1 to a two-child policy. It is the lowest fertility rate in the world, according to People’s Daily, the main newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/world/asia/china-fertility-birth.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/world/asia/china-fertility... It's logical that people would stop having so many kids once a society has industrialized because the cost of raising and educating them is relatively more expensive while the benefit to having them labor with you is essentially gone.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    Some projections say peak human population will occur around 2050 or 2060. That's pretty close in many ways. Other projections put it further into the future, but decades rather than centuries, so still pretty close.
    - EJTH 10y ago
      And how many projections about world population have been overshot through out the past 50 years? Oh yeah thats right, all of them. As long as we have religions that advocate mindless reproduction just to keep their dominance, you will never end the acceleration of human reproduction. Most humans want kids, its in our nature, but if all humans have 10 kids each, and they get 10 each... etc etc. you will come to the realization that growth in human population is unstoppable without some cataclysmic event or totalitarian master/slave society where only the top gets to reproduce. I pick the indiscriminatory cataclysmic event any day over elitist governance over the right for reproduction.
      - Mithaldu 10y ago
        Can't be arsed to make an effort post now, but you're overlooking the effects education, healthcare and wealth distribution have on controlling amounts of children without any sort of force required. Gapminder provides a tool to explore this data on your own, and one of its founders, Hans Rosling, has made many videos explaining it in an accessible fashion.
      - maxerickson 10y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Greiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Greiling In a book written in 1954, predicted that climate change would become urgent in 1990, predicted population peak of 9 billion which is similar to current estimates, predicted the peak would happen this century. He'll probably end up proven wrong in the end, but by years and hundreds of millions rather than centuries and billions.
      - EJTH 10y ago
        "effects education, healthcare and wealth distribution have on controlling amounts of children without any sort of force required." That effect is virtually non existing when it comes to arab and middle eastern immigrants in Europe...

by EJTH 10y ago

emodendroket 10y ago

Yes, "cap and trade" plans are completely inadequate to address the problem, but "the only real solution is man depopulating the planet" seems questionable given that burning fossil fuels is not a sine qua non of continued human existence.

EJTH 10y ago
Since the human race is no way near a decline in growth, reducing fossil fuel use is like pissing your pants to keep yourself warm.
- kbart 10y ago
  "reducing fossil fuel use is like pissing your pants to keep yourself warm." Bullshit, there are already many countries(0) that generate >90% of their electricity using renewable sources. Given the fast growing electric motor industry, we could get rid of fossil fuels pretty fast. It's only a political question, not technological. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_production_from_renewable_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electrici...
  - EJTH 10y ago
    Yes, and so what? 90% less fossil fuel spend in electricity does not equal a 90% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions for a person (Humans emit greenhouse gasses directly and indirectly for alot of other purposes than electricity). So maybe you can fit 90% more people into the equation if you reduce their emissions sufficiently, but that will be voided by the exponential growth of the human population within generations.
    - emodendroket 10y ago
      It's less than clear that the human population is going to continue growing at breakneck speed when industrialization is generally associated with much lower birth rates, and even staving off the problem for "generations" would be a success.
      - EJTH 10y ago
        correlation does not mean causation... China had a birthrate boom during their industrilaization, so did Syria. It is a culture thing, not a socioeconomic thing imo.
        emodendroket 10y ago
        > Findings from a 2015 government census show that the average Chinese woman has 1.05 children — a legacy of the one-child policy that changed on Jan. 1 to a two-child policy. It is the lowest fertility rate in the world, according to People’s Daily, the main newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/world/asia/china-fertility-birth.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/world/asia/china-fertility... It's logical that people would stop having so many kids once a society has industrialized because the cost of raising and educating them is relatively more expensive while the benefit to having them labor with you is essentially gone.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  Some projections say peak human population will occur around 2050 or 2060. That's pretty close in many ways. Other projections put it further into the future, but decades rather than centuries, so still pretty close.
  - EJTH 10y ago
    And how many projections about world population have been overshot through out the past 50 years? Oh yeah thats right, all of them. As long as we have religions that advocate mindless reproduction just to keep their dominance, you will never end the acceleration of human reproduction. Most humans want kids, its in our nature, but if all humans have 10 kids each, and they get 10 each... etc etc. you will come to the realization that growth in human population is unstoppable without some cataclysmic event or totalitarian master/slave society where only the top gets to reproduce. I pick the indiscriminatory cataclysmic event any day over elitist governance over the right for reproduction.
    - Mithaldu 10y ago
      Can't be arsed to make an effort post now, but you're overlooking the effects education, healthcare and wealth distribution have on controlling amounts of children without any sort of force required. Gapminder provides a tool to explore this data on your own, and one of its founders, Hans Rosling, has made many videos explaining it in an accessible fashion.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Greiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Greiling In a book written in 1954, predicted that climate change would become urgent in 1990, predicted population peak of 9 billion which is similar to current estimates, predicted the peak would happen this century. He'll probably end up proven wrong in the end, but by years and hundreds of millions rather than centuries and billions.
    - EJTH 10y ago
      "effects education, healthcare and wealth distribution have on controlling amounts of children without any sort of force required." That effect is virtually non existing when it comes to arab and middle eastern immigrants in Europe...