4 ms·

The quicker the Arctic ice melts, the sooner Russia can dominate it. I wonder how long it will be until the US starts caring.

lotsoflumens 10y ago
Most Americans and Canadians think that Russia is "over there" somewhere on the other side of Ukraine. I think it's due to the way most maps are still drawn - Mercator projection with the equator on a horizontal line. If maps had polar perspective maybe our politics would be different.
- rabidrat 10y ago
  A major vice presidential candidate (2008) claimed she could "see Russia from her house". So I think we know it's pretty close-by.
  - frankc 10y ago
    She never actually said that (in that way). Tina Fey did.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
      Yes, though Palin did (rightly) say that you can see Russia from certain parts of Alaska: http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/russia.asp http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/russia.asp
peller 10y ago
It may not be highly publicized, but you can bet your ass many (likely unelected) officials in the US already care and have been paying attention for some time. The same goes for Canada, Denmark (Greenland), and the Scandanavian countries. Whether for the right reasons is a different debate; from a military standpoint, it's far too strategic of a region for them to not care. The same could be said for big business (natural resources and shipping routes). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Political_Map_of_the_Arctic.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Political_Map_of_the_Arct...
tobltobs 10y ago
Whats the problem? Russia is a partner of the new US. Lots of business to do there.
lolive 10y ago
Putine and Trump have an agreement: - russia will extract the oil of the (now ice-free) arctic ocean - consumerism will convert that oil into CO2 - temperature will continue to rise - antarctica will eventually become ice-free - the US will extract the oil of antarctica - consumerism will convert that oil into CO2 - russia will eventually become ice-free - russia will extract the oil of the (now ice-free) russia - consumerism will convert that oil into CO2 - temperature will continue to rise - shareholders of air conditionning companies are now rich enough to leave the earth and live in suborbital stations - the other humans live like mad max - ...?
- golemotron 10y ago
  - coastal elites in the US underwater. Forced migration to red states
- cmurf 10y ago
  I don't underestimate the class based sabotage. Don't think the human primate won't sell out is own kind, just because they're warned in advance. The incuriousity of U.S. media really is remarkably repellant. None of the presidential debates brought up climate change at all. No one asks whether the politician believes the ozone hole problem was real, and whether it was set on a course of self repair by global political agreement, and local legal enforcement. Whether there was a free market fix for this in any sane time frame. No questions. That's holding people too accountable somehow. Asking if people understand the ozone hole is maybe like asking whether 2+2=4 or some other value. Sure they'd say 4 (ozone problem was real) but somehow global warming is some 6+6!=12 but no one is ever held accountable for such absurdity. And why? The general population doesn't count that high. So the answer is in fact debatable. There's no common frame of reference with a huge percent of the American population. Meanwhile in California, it is pretty much widely accepted. But they have "socialist" education and infrastructure investment; not this free market starve the beast strategy being used in bum fuck Kansas and Texas where people are getting dumber than rocks by the day, and like it, because their taxes are lower and Jesus isn't questioned. But they wonder why business won't move there. Anyway this can't be treated as a problem only majoritatian democracy can solve. Leave it up to the majority and it's hopeless. This is a consensual problem, work the system just like this is a minority right, even though in the end the majority benefits.

lotsoflumens 10y ago

Most Americans and Canadians think that Russia is "over there" somewhere on the other side of Ukraine. I think it's due to the way most maps are still drawn - Mercator projection with the equator on a horizontal line. If maps had polar perspective maybe our politics would be different.

rabidrat 10y ago
A major vice presidential candidate (2008) claimed she could "see Russia from her house". So I think we know it's pretty close-by.
- frankc 10y ago
  She never actually said that (in that way). Tina Fey did.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
    Yes, though Palin did (rightly) say that you can see Russia from certain parts of Alaska: http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/russia.asp http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/russia.asp

peller 10y ago

It may not be highly publicized, but you can bet your ass many (likely unelected) officials in the US already care and have been paying attention for some time. The same goes for Canada, Denmark (Greenland), and the Scandanavian countries. Whether for the right reasons is a different debate; from a military standpoint, it's far too strategic of a region for them to not care. The same could be said for big business (natural resources and shipping routes). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Political_Map_of_the_Arctic.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Political_Map_of_the_Arct...

tobltobs 10y ago

Whats the problem? Russia is a partner of the new US. Lots of business to do there.

lolive 10y ago

Putine and Trump have an agreement: - russia will extract the oil of the (now ice-free) arctic ocean - consumerism will convert that oil into CO2 - temperature will continue to rise - antarctica will eventually become ice-free - the US will extract the oil of antarctica - consumerism will convert that oil into CO2 - russia will eventually become ice-free - russia will extract the oil of the (now ice-free) russia - consumerism will convert that oil into CO2 - temperature will continue to rise - shareholders of air conditionning companies are now rich enough to leave the earth and live in suborbital stations - the other humans live like mad max - ...?

golemotron 10y ago
- coastal elites in the US underwater. Forced migration to red states
cmurf 10y ago
I don't underestimate the class based sabotage. Don't think the human primate won't sell out is own kind, just because they're warned in advance. The incuriousity of U.S. media really is remarkably repellant. None of the presidential debates brought up climate change at all. No one asks whether the politician believes the ozone hole problem was real, and whether it was set on a course of self repair by global political agreement, and local legal enforcement. Whether there was a free market fix for this in any sane time frame. No questions. That's holding people too accountable somehow. Asking if people understand the ozone hole is maybe like asking whether 2+2=4 or some other value. Sure they'd say 4 (ozone problem was real) but somehow global warming is some 6+6!=12 but no one is ever held accountable for such absurdity. And why? The general population doesn't count that high. So the answer is in fact debatable. There's no common frame of reference with a huge percent of the American population. Meanwhile in California, it is pretty much widely accepted. But they have "socialist" education and infrastructure investment; not this free market starve the beast strategy being used in bum fuck Kansas and Texas where people are getting dumber than rocks by the day, and like it, because their taxes are lower and Jesus isn't questioned. But they wonder why business won't move there. Anyway this can't be treated as a problem only majoritatian democracy can solve. Leave it up to the majority and it's hopeless. This is a consensual problem, work the system just like this is a minority right, even though in the end the majority benefits.