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Right, and that's one of the largest libraries in the world - the definition of an outlier. $600M annual budget makes no one bat an eye in the software world.

by GuiA 10y ago

Right, and that's one of the largest libraries in the world - the definition of an outlier. $600M annual budget makes no one bat an eye in the software world. I don't fundamentally disagree with you, but I need to hear more than "let's just do like librarians do" because the similarities are tenuous.

idlewords 10y ago
You asked for examples of librarians running hundred-million dollar projects, and I gave you one. I think the issue is one of professional culture and norms, and has little to do with budgets. If you don't like the analogy to librarians, pick one of any number of professions that have a robust code of ethics. Mechanical engineers build aircraft and bridges, for example, at budgets that dwarf ours.
- GuiA 10y ago
  That's a fair point. I think the fundamental issue lies with the fact that software is one of the most geographically agnostic fields. You're going to have a very hard time getting librarians in the Philippines running a library in Virginia, or engineers based in India building a bridge in San Francisco. But in software, it just doesn't matter. (well, we all know it does matter - but to the vast majority of MBA types, it doesn't matter) That's why I have a hard time with the librarian analogy, and even the mechanical engineer one and others to some extent. Software just feels conceptually different from other professions in that it's very hard to imagine work that would be any easier to ship to the lowest bidder anywhere in the world. That seems to me like the real philosophical problem to deal with.
  - morgante 10y ago
    > We need a code of ethics for lawyers, with actual teeth (violating it means you can't commercially practice law any more). Eh, they wish it didn't. In reality, if geography really didn't matter then you wouldn't see developers making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.
  - idlewords 10y ago
    I understand your argument and the difficulties you raise. That's one reason I think the ethical rules should be around the data collections, and not the code. That seems to be a much more tractable problem.

by GuiA 10y ago

idlewords 10y ago

You asked for examples of librarians running hundred-million dollar projects, and I gave you one. I think the issue is one of professional culture and norms, and has little to do with budgets. If you don't like the analogy to librarians, pick one of any number of professions that have a robust code of ethics. Mechanical engineers build aircraft and bridges, for example, at budgets that dwarf ours.

GuiA 10y ago
That's a fair point. I think the fundamental issue lies with the fact that software is one of the most geographically agnostic fields. You're going to have a very hard time getting librarians in the Philippines running a library in Virginia, or engineers based in India building a bridge in San Francisco. But in software, it just doesn't matter. (well, we all know it does matter - but to the vast majority of MBA types, it doesn't matter) That's why I have a hard time with the librarian analogy, and even the mechanical engineer one and others to some extent. Software just feels conceptually different from other professions in that it's very hard to imagine work that would be any easier to ship to the lowest bidder anywhere in the world. That seems to me like the real philosophical problem to deal with.
- morgante 10y ago
  > We need a code of ethics for lawyers, with actual teeth (violating it means you can't commercially practice law any more). Eh, they wish it didn't. In reality, if geography really didn't matter then you wouldn't see developers making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.
- idlewords 10y ago
  I understand your argument and the difficulties you raise. That's one reason I think the ethical rules should be around the data collections, and not the code. That seems to be a much more tractable problem.