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Three questions: 1) Donald Trump has called for keeping a database of Muslims, to surveil and police them. Do you recognize the truth of this statement? 2) Is

by scarmig 10y ago

Three questions: 1) Donald Trump has called for keeping a database of Muslims, to surveil and police them. Do you recognize the truth of this statement? 2) Is it bad and oppressive to target a stigmatized minority religious group for government surveillance and policing? 3) Are software engineers morally obligated to not implement oppressive policies? Or is whatever they do justified, so long as it came as an order from above?

brighteyes 10y ago
> 1) Donald Trump has called for keeping a database of Muslims, to surveil and police them. The problem is that all that information already exists. Google and Facebook know everyone's religion (and ethnicity and so forth). And as Snowden revealed, the government can get access to those databases. And you can be sure they already do so specifically for Muslim people, for terrorism intel purposes. If the author of the piece were serious, we would need to start by getting Google and Facebook to remove that information. Or stop working with the government. Or stop working at those companies until they do. But the author realizes that is something people wouldn't accept, I guess, and suggests we "not help create a new database" which just a meaningless distraction.
- scarmig 10y ago
  There's still a world of difference between the government actively maintaining a database of Enemies of the State, and the government having to extract that information from at best neutral, and often hostile third parties. That said, it certainly behooves Facebook and Google to be thoughtful about what data they keep in a form easily accessible to the government.
  - brighteyes 10y ago
    I don't see a world of difference. The government gets that information either way. Once Google and Facebook has it, it can be retrieved by the government through both legal and non-legal mechanisms. Again, we know this happens, Snowden showed us. The only option is for Google and Facebook to not have that information in the first place. That's just not going to happen - there is tons of financial value in knowing people's religion, ethnicity, etc. etc.

by scarmig 10y ago

brighteyes 10y ago

> 1) Donald Trump has called for keeping a database of Muslims, to surveil and police them. The problem is that all that information already exists. Google and Facebook know everyone's religion (and ethnicity and so forth). And as Snowden revealed, the government can get access to those databases. And you can be sure they already do so specifically for Muslim people, for terrorism intel purposes. If the author of the piece were serious, we would need to start by getting Google and Facebook to remove that information. Or stop working with the government. Or stop working at those companies until they do. But the author realizes that is something people wouldn't accept, I guess, and suggests we "not help create a new database" which just a meaningless distraction.

scarmig 10y ago
There's still a world of difference between the government actively maintaining a database of Enemies of the State, and the government having to extract that information from at best neutral, and often hostile third parties. That said, it certainly behooves Facebook and Google to be thoughtful about what data they keep in a form easily accessible to the government.
- brighteyes 10y ago
  I don't see a world of difference. The government gets that information either way. Once Google and Facebook has it, it can be retrieved by the government through both legal and non-legal mechanisms. Again, we know this happens, Snowden showed us. The only option is for Google and Facebook to not have that information in the first place. That's just not going to happen - there is tons of financial value in knowing people's religion, ethnicity, etc. etc.