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What do you mean "you can't build"? What does "build software" mean? You can't run gcc anymore? Contribute to opensource? Publish your app? What would you add
by ar15saveslives 10y ago
What do you mean "you can't build"? What does "build software" mean? You can't run gcc anymore? Contribute to opensource? Publish your app?
What would you add to that "code of ethics"? Should I be banned from "build software" if my library is used in non-ethical (in someone's opinion) project? Is working for institutions in countries that violate human rights (UAE?) should be considered "unethical"?
Just take your witch hunt ideas and leave us alone.
- idlewords 10y agoA reasonable code of professional ethics is not a witch hunt.
- flamedoge 10y agobased on whose "reason" is reasonable?
- idlewords 10y agoBased on broad consensus within the profession, like happens in journalism, law, medicine, social science etc. etc.
- flamedoge 10y agoNegative enforcement by punishment is not likely to hold well for programmers. What are you gonna do, ban all hacking? good luck trying to enforce that.
- idlewords 10y agoYou think of this in terms of a ban, but what a professional code of ethics really does is offer cover to people who don't want to behave unethically.
- flamedoge 10y agoPardon me for being d's advocate. I think there already exists avenues to reject requests to do unethical things. I don't know what this "code of ethics" offers that will replace or surpass existing avenues.
- morgante 10y ago> I think there already exists avenues to reject requests to do unethical things. Such as? Right now you're option is basically to quit.
- flamedoge 10y agoYou start documenting evidence and bring it to court or (threaten to)expose them in public. I don't see what this "code of ethics" can do to shield you from whatever.
- morgante 10y agoThere are plenty of things which are legal but unethical. Also that still involves me losing my job. A code of ethics let's me say "I'm not going to do that, and you can't hire somebody who will."
- flamedoge 10y agoseriously? You think a company willing to violate ethics will stop at you saying to them "you can't hire somebody who will."? This is why I think such "code" has absolutely no power or leverage when it comes to employer-employee interactions.
- anigbrowl 10y agoOh, but you think you'll be able to scare them into compliance with the threat of a lawsuit? You don't have enough power. Capital provides one kind of power, large social networks a different kind of power. You as an individual don't have much power at all unless you are some sort of indispensable genius...in which case you're more likely to be running the business than taking orders.
- morgante 10y agoIt's amazing to me how much pushback is coming against the simple notion that as professionals we should follow some standard of ethics. Nobody is proposing that you need a credential to code. Just to be employed as a developer at a reputable tech company. This is hardly a novel idea. Many professions have professional associations.
- tptacek 10y agoIt's important that both sides of this discussion remain civil and refrain from casting aspersions. This comment would be better without the "alt-right angle on HN" bit. Having misgivings about a code of ethics or about this pledge doesn't make someone an "alt-righter".
- morgante 10y ago> Having misgivings about a code of ethics or about this pledge doesn't make someone an "alt-righter". No, but ranting about illegal immigration (a totally tangential issue) does.
- tptacek 10y agoI'd encourage you to focus on the arguments rather than on attributing things to the people writing those arguments; if you must do that, have real evidence.
- morgante 10y agoWhat exactly do you think is the substantive argument of "but illegal immigration?" Nothing in the article is about illegal immigration, nor is the discussion of a Muslim database about illegal immigration. It's a red herring. We already have immigration databases. This is how the alt-right derails discussion. They exploit our preference to treat all arguments as valid until we're at the point of debating whether mass deportation of ethnic/religious minorities is okay. The growing and vocal influence of the alt-right on HN should not be ignored.
- 10y ago
- ar15saveslives 10y agoJournalism, law and social science are the last things I want my profession resemble.
- lazugod 10y agoWhy?
- brighteyes 10y agoOne relevant issue is that journalism and social science have an extreme and well-documented lack of political diversity.
- internaut 10y agoAnother is that they are social scientists and journalists.
- ar15saveslives 10y agoWhy what?