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The Perfect Weapon: How Russian Cyberpower Invaded the U.S

44 points by 40acres 10y ago

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
vinhboy 10y ago
This kind of thing has also happens to smart, tech-savy, people within the tech community. It's sad to me that we are glossing over this issue because it did not happen in the physical world. Imagine if we caught Russian agents physically breaking into the DNC office, in a Watergate-esque sort of way. I doubt we'd just continue our election business as usual. I feel like as members of the tech community, it's sort of our job to connect the dots for people. We always lament every time we hear about security breaches on popular websites and want to do something about it. But this is happening at the highest level in our country and I feel like everyone is just kinda silent about it because they don't want to be appear partisan.
jdenning 10y ago
I'm a bit nervous about some of the proposed legislation that is (ostensibly) protect us from this..I mean the patriot act was supposed to protect everyone from terrorism, but it served to legitimize the surveillance state. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/5181 https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/5181 https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/2692/all-info https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/269... "...develop and synchronize government initiatives to expose and counter foreign information operations directed against U.S. national security interests and advance fact-based narratives that support U.S. allies and interests"
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 10y ago
  "...develop and synchronize government initiatives to expose and counter foreign information operations directed against U.S. national security interests and advance fact-based narratives that support U.S. allies and interests" This sounds suspiciously close to an official propaganda department. Anything that does not conform to the government narrative will be deemed a foreign information operation.
mi100hael 10y ago
This whole article smacks of the NY Times reporting surrounding WMDs in Iraq. Yet again we have some very alarming assertions made by top officials and being parroted by the paper without any actual concrete evidence being produced and displayed to the public. If anything, it's worse because the NY Times is taking the assertions as gospel and jumping to their own conclusions. > In the meantime, the hackers moved on to targets outside the D.N.C., including Mrs. Clinton’s campaign chairman, John D. Podesta, whose private email account was hacked months later. > Even Mr. Podesta, a savvy Washington insider who had written a 2014 report on cyberprivacy for President Obama, did not truly understand the gravity of the hacking. This is the first I'm hearing of any ties to Podesta's emails and Russians. If anything, I always assumed that particular attack was some teenager in Tennessee[0]. In this case the CIA & co absolutely need to publish all the evidence they have linking Russia to the intrusions. The evidence they are claiming could be anything from something as tenuous as "превед"[1] in a log file to something as concrete as a CIA mole participating in the attacks from within the walls of the Kremlin. Right now we the people are being bombarded from all sides with 100% unhelpful bullshit. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin_email_hack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin_email_hack [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preved https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preved
- tdb7893 10y ago
  At the very least do you believe that the American election was targeted by hackers in Russia? That part seems to be pretty well agreed upon by multiple agencies inside and outside the government.
  - alexmingoia 10y ago
    I'll believe evidence - not authority.
    - tdb7893 10y ago
      Is it just a matter of not trusting who has investigated? It would be weird to just reject whatever you haven't seen yourself as false. People have been wrong before but I think that there is a large line between scepticism and outright denial in these situations.
loukrazy 10y ago
Why do news outlets insist on calling everything Cyber-xyz. This is Information warfare aided by technical tools. It's not the hacking that is the weapon but how and where you release the information gained by those tools.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 10y ago
Looks like they learned from the US. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/12/head-stratfor-private-cia-says-overthrow-yanukovych-blatant-coup-history.html http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/12/head-stratfor-private... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Syria#War.2C_2011.E2.80.9316 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Syria#War.2C...
- Nomentatus 10y ago
  You did read the article, I hope. Including the mention of the extensive 1996 Russian cyberattack on the US?
secabeen 10y ago
Security is hard. Look at the email from Charles Delevan. It legitimized the phishing attack on John Podesta, and caused the compromise of Mr. Podesta's emails. All the advice in that email is good, solid, and accurate. But he claims to have typoed one word, where he typed legitimate instead of illegitimate, and the hackers were in. A good reminder that in security, you have to be right every time, and the attackers only need you to slip up once.
- Nomentatus 10y ago
  Not to mention the ancient adage: "In business, nothing is done until it is checked."
coldtea 10y ago
The perfect BS. That a country that (a) continuously meddles with internal Russian affairs ever after the Cold War, (b) with tons of sponsored "NG"Os, "watchdogs", journalists paid to publish any old BS about Russian politics IN Russia and outside, (c) which even openly sponsors the main opposition trying to finally re-install some friendly patchy in power (a la Yeltsin, who will sell the country to foreign interests wholesale), (d) and which, unlike Russia, which is the pale relic of an ex-superpower, that even that wasn't all that powerful as it was thought to be, actually has the power, money, and global resources to actually make that have an effect (sponsoring 'orange revolutions' nearby, enforcing sanctions, etc), has the gal to speak of Russia "invading" them and affecting their elections is beyond me. Especially since the one that won the elections had tons of free coverage from all established US media and broadcasters, and huge support in the fly-over states. These fake cries of foreign intervention are a double insult for all those countries, in Latin America, Africa, Asia, even Europe, that had their legitimate leaders replaced by dictators with the help of US intervention, from the Shah to Pinochet and beyond to today's mess in the Middle East.
- unclenoriega 10y ago
  After all the other practices you listed, I'm not sure why this one is surprising.
- kafkaesq 10y ago
  [hypocrisy, double standards, orange revolutions, misdirection, blah blah blah] None of which has any bearing whatsoever on the simple factual matter of how the attacks happened, and what parties where responsible.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >None of which has any bearing whatsoever on the simple factual matter of how the attacks happened, and what parties where responsible. Which I didn't address and I don't care much about. However the attacks happened, and whoever parties were responsible, they were obviously inconsequential to the outcome of the elections. But pointing out the hypocrisy is important, because it brings things to perspective and shows the absurdity of the complaints.
Jimmie_Rustle 10y ago
I don't really understand why there is so much energy being spent trying to spin this into Russia subverting our Democracy. Corporate and government espionage happens. In this case, the results of these 'hacks' has been release of confidential emails and documents. If the contents of these dumps were completely mundane, I do not think it would have been a big deal at all. It's sort of like saying 'information subverted our Democracy'.
SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
I think the question here, implied but not directly asked is: did Donald J Trump commit an act of treason by collaborating with a foreign power (and their military) to undermine our electoral process? I don't know that we've seen evidence of that yet, but it's possible that someone such as the NSA has evidence of the collaboration from secret channels. I certainly believe that a man whose entire campaign was based on lies and whose business dealings are littered with fraud and broken contracts would betray the nation while campaigning to lead it. His economic decisions (and appointments) have already betrayed the very people who got him elected. So I hope we get a detailed report before Obama leaves office -- because no person should be allowed to serve as president if they've committed an act of treason (and particularly if they committed treason during the election)! Tl;dr: Spy agencies, please help us know if Treacherous Trump is really Treasonous Trump.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
mturmon 10y ago
This has been flagged, but doing so is a mistake. It is a hack in both senses of the term, and clearly merits discussion here.
- bootload 10y ago
  "It is a hack in both senses of the term, and clearly merits discussion here." Agree @mturmon, not happy HN is flagging away stories like this. A lot of security, technical and business questions can be asked and learned from this incident.
  - mturmon 10y ago
    Exactly, it is hacking in the biggest sense of the term. It is not just run-of-the-mill politics, which I admit, HN does not do well at, and is no fun to discuss here.
- j-conn 10y ago
  I was surprised this wasn't being discussed here. Mods, could you revisit this?

44 points by 40acres 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

This kind of thing has also happens to smart, tech-savy, people within the tech community. It's sad to me that we are glossing over this issue because it did not happen in the physical world. Imagine if we caught Russian agents physically breaking into the DNC office, in a Watergate-esque sort of way. I doubt we'd just continue our election business as usual. I feel like as members of the tech community, it's sort of our job to connect the dots for people. We always lament every time we hear about security breaches on popular websites and want to do something about it. But this is happening at the highest level in our country and I feel like everyone is just kinda silent about it because they don't want to be appear partisan.

jdenning 10y ago

I'm a bit nervous about some of the proposed legislation that is (ostensibly) protect us from this..I mean the patriot act was supposed to protect everyone from terrorism, but it served to legitimize the surveillance state. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/5181 https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/5181 https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/2692/all-info https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/269... "...develop and synchronize government initiatives to expose and counter foreign information operations directed against U.S. national security interests and advance fact-based narratives that support U.S. allies and interests"

RcouF1uZ4gsC 10y ago
"...develop and synchronize government initiatives to expose and counter foreign information operations directed against U.S. national security interests and advance fact-based narratives that support U.S. allies and interests" This sounds suspiciously close to an official propaganda department. Anything that does not conform to the government narrative will be deemed a foreign information operation.

mi100hael 10y ago

This whole article smacks of the NY Times reporting surrounding WMDs in Iraq. Yet again we have some very alarming assertions made by top officials and being parroted by the paper without any actual concrete evidence being produced and displayed to the public. If anything, it's worse because the NY Times is taking the assertions as gospel and jumping to their own conclusions. > In the meantime, the hackers moved on to targets outside the D.N.C., including Mrs. Clinton’s campaign chairman, John D. Podesta, whose private email account was hacked months later. > Even Mr. Podesta, a savvy Washington insider who had written a 2014 report on cyberprivacy for President Obama, did not truly understand the gravity of the hacking. This is the first I'm hearing of any ties to Podesta's emails and Russians. If anything, I always assumed that particular attack was some teenager in Tennessee[0]. In this case the CIA & co absolutely need to publish all the evidence they have linking Russia to the intrusions. The evidence they are claiming could be anything from something as tenuous as "превед"[1] in a log file to something as concrete as a CIA mole participating in the attacks from within the walls of the Kremlin. Right now we the people are being bombarded from all sides with 100% unhelpful bullshit. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin_email_hack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin_email_hack [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preved https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preved

tdb7893 10y ago
At the very least do you believe that the American election was targeted by hackers in Russia? That part seems to be pretty well agreed upon by multiple agencies inside and outside the government.
- alexmingoia 10y ago
  I'll believe evidence - not authority.
  - tdb7893 10y ago
    Is it just a matter of not trusting who has investigated? It would be weird to just reject whatever you haven't seen yourself as false. People have been wrong before but I think that there is a large line between scepticism and outright denial in these situations.

loukrazy 10y ago

Why do news outlets insist on calling everything Cyber-xyz. This is Information warfare aided by technical tools. It's not the hacking that is the weapon but how and where you release the information gained by those tools.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 10y ago

Looks like they learned from the US. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/12/head-stratfor-private-cia-says-overthrow-yanukovych-blatant-coup-history.html http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/12/head-stratfor-private... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Syria#War.2C_2011.E2.80.9316 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Syria#War.2C...

Nomentatus 10y ago
You did read the article, I hope. Including the mention of the extensive 1996 Russian cyberattack on the US?

secabeen 10y ago

Security is hard. Look at the email from Charles Delevan. It legitimized the phishing attack on John Podesta, and caused the compromise of Mr. Podesta's emails. All the advice in that email is good, solid, and accurate. But he claims to have typoed one word, where he typed legitimate instead of illegitimate, and the hackers were in. A good reminder that in security, you have to be right every time, and the attackers only need you to slip up once.

Nomentatus 10y ago
Not to mention the ancient adage: "In business, nothing is done until it is checked."

coldtea 10y ago

The perfect BS. That a country that (a) continuously meddles with internal Russian affairs ever after the Cold War, (b) with tons of sponsored "NG"Os, "watchdogs", journalists paid to publish any old BS about Russian politics IN Russia and outside, (c) which even openly sponsors the main opposition trying to finally re-install some friendly patchy in power (a la Yeltsin, who will sell the country to foreign interests wholesale), (d) and which, unlike Russia, which is the pale relic of an ex-superpower, that even that wasn't all that powerful as it was thought to be, actually has the power, money, and global resources to actually make that have an effect (sponsoring 'orange revolutions' nearby, enforcing sanctions, etc), has the gal to speak of Russia "invading" them and affecting their elections is beyond me. Especially since the one that won the elections had tons of free coverage from all established US media and broadcasters, and huge support in the fly-over states. These fake cries of foreign intervention are a double insult for all those countries, in Latin America, Africa, Asia, even Europe, that had their legitimate leaders replaced by dictators with the help of US intervention, from the Shah to Pinochet and beyond to today's mess in the Middle East.

unclenoriega 10y ago
After all the other practices you listed, I'm not sure why this one is surprising.
kafkaesq 10y ago
[hypocrisy, double standards, orange revolutions, misdirection, blah blah blah] None of which has any bearing whatsoever on the simple factual matter of how the attacks happened, and what parties where responsible.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >None of which has any bearing whatsoever on the simple factual matter of how the attacks happened, and what parties where responsible. Which I didn't address and I don't care much about. However the attacks happened, and whoever parties were responsible, they were obviously inconsequential to the outcome of the elections. But pointing out the hypocrisy is important, because it brings things to perspective and shows the absurdity of the complaints.

Jimmie_Rustle 10y ago

I don't really understand why there is so much energy being spent trying to spin this into Russia subverting our Democracy. Corporate and government espionage happens. In this case, the results of these 'hacks' has been release of confidential emails and documents. If the contents of these dumps were completely mundane, I do not think it would have been a big deal at all. It's sort of like saying 'information subverted our Democracy'.

SomeStupidPoint 10y ago

I think the question here, implied but not directly asked is: did Donald J Trump commit an act of treason by collaborating with a foreign power (and their military) to undermine our electoral process? I don't know that we've seen evidence of that yet, but it's possible that someone such as the NSA has evidence of the collaboration from secret channels. I certainly believe that a man whose entire campaign was based on lies and whose business dealings are littered with fraud and broken contracts would betray the nation while campaigning to lead it. His economic decisions (and appointments) have already betrayed the very people who got him elected. So I hope we get a detailed report before Obama leaves office -- because no person should be allowed to serve as president if they've committed an act of treason (and particularly if they committed treason during the election)! Tl;dr: Spy agencies, please help us know if Treacherous Trump is really Treasonous Trump.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

mturmon 10y ago

This has been flagged, but doing so is a mistake. It is a hack in both senses of the term, and clearly merits discussion here.

bootload 10y ago
"It is a hack in both senses of the term, and clearly merits discussion here." Agree @mturmon, not happy HN is flagging away stories like this. A lot of security, technical and business questions can be asked and learned from this incident.
- mturmon 10y ago
  Exactly, it is hacking in the biggest sense of the term. It is not just run-of-the-mill politics, which I admit, HN does not do well at, and is no fun to discuss here.
j-conn 10y ago
I was surprised this wasn't being discussed here. Mods, could you revisit this?