6 ms·

Facebook is Getting Orwellian. I Vote Ctrl-W.

34 points by erickerr 16y ago

p858snake 16y ago
They were already linked.... but to a search field.... Now they are just linking to a fan page which pulls content from Wikipedia. And it used to news feed them when you changed them anyway ("XX has changed their television interests" or something to that extent)
- krschultz 16y ago
  They were not automatically public before, that is a much bigger deal than the change from search to page.
  - p858snake 16y ago
    AFAIK^^ interests on new profiles are set as "Friends Only" by defaults and that was one of the defaults on the previous privacy rollout for pre-existing users after the cry out. All this does is change how the interests actually link (They used to be linked to a search field seeing who else had that text, Now they link to pre-formatted fan pages which still show who else like it but with descriptions from Wikipedia.) ^^Will need to check on my Alt FB account.
    - pak 16y ago
      Don't you love that you need a second FB account to check whether your privacy settings are actually in effect? It's indicative of how difficult it is to understand the privacy settings that are offered. Part of the reason Facebook is able to get away with so much of this is that when you are logged into Facebook, it never occurs to you how much of your information is being shown to other people; it's like a crowd of people with funny stickynotes attached to their forehead, everybody sees and is entertained by what they can see on other people's foreheads but they can't easily tell what is on their own.
      - flipbrad 16y ago
        wish they could somehow colour code things, maybe a toggle to colour code private/public stuff
        indigoviolet 16y ago
        Try the "Preview my Profile" link on http://www.facebook.com/settings/?tab=privacy&section=personal_content http://www.facebook.com/settings/?tab=privacy&section=pe...
      - p858snake 16y ago
        No, my second account is for something else (that started as a joke), It just proves to be a useful testbed for these things. And they do provide methods of seeing what is available to friends (But that only works well if you have lists and stuff setup)
wrs 16y ago
Much as I love complaining about Facebook, the fact that they accurately derived the pages to be linked to means they already have this information. In fact I'm not even sure why they bother to ask.
- krschultz 16y ago
  They are asking because auto opt-in drew the ire of legislators, now they have the "we asked!" defense. Of course as this and other (http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebooks_high_pressure_tactics_opt-in_or_else.php http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebooks_high_pressure...) articles point out, the opt-in is both unclear and a bit forceful. Also FB has had backlash before over making things public so they are trying to nip that in the bud beforehand by allowing the vocal minority who understands/pays attention to this stuff to opt-out while the masses just click the "Accept All" button.
  - shrikant 16y ago
    Except if you say No, they delete all your profile information. It's either links to Pages or nothing.
- indigoviolet 16y ago
  They were derived from the text you put on your Profile. Users were asked because it was the right thing to do, given that the algorithm would make some mistakes, and because converting the free text to Page connections meant that these would be hideable but public.
mikeknoop 16y ago
With this move, Facebook is turning many of your before-private profile fields into now-public "Page" connections. Any most users don't realize by clicking that blue button they are making everything public.
- indigoviolet 16y ago
  Did you read the three sentences on the top of that dialog? The third one reads, "Remember, your Pages are public". There is a more detailed explanation linked off of the "Learn more" link. [I work for Facebook, but my opinions are my own].
  - sgman 16y ago
    Why not add an option to not make the pages public on that modal dialog? I can do it in the settings after all..
    - indigoviolet 16y ago
      No, Page connections are public. I don't think you can change that under Privacy settings -- you can not display them on your Profile if you so choose. The dialog took the conservative option of warning you that things were becoming public, rather than adding a potentially confusing "hide Pages" option on the dialog.
      - greyfade 16y ago
        I find this distateful. There's no Earthly reason to make those connections public except to expose personally-identifying information that the individual may not want to have exposed. This, to me, is a nightmare of Orwellian proportions. Take my advice: pull the plug.
  - mikeknoop 16y ago
    Yes, that sentence does seek to inform users that their new Page connections are public -- especially those you take the time to read the dialog. However, in the last few days I've run across many Facebook users who chose to make these public connections when previously they had their interests and likes private. I suspect most of them clicked through the dialog without reading it or fully understanding the ramifications of their actions. You could argue that the user's ignorance and lack of reading available explanation is their problem, but it just seems a little unethical (on the grounds of previously knowing average users will click through dialogs) overall.
jrockway 16y ago
kill-region?
levesque 16y ago
Is that really so much of an issue? I'd rather keep using Facebook knowing that they index 5-10 pages I clicked 'like' on than just stop using it.
puffythefish 16y ago
Do you guys list a series of illegal activities as public interests on Facebook or something? Google's lack of privacy boundaries are much more disconcerting than this -- "Orwellian" seems to imply one being watched, which Facebook is not doing; you are publishing it yourself, to the Internet. This is just an example of poor UI design.
- ebiester 16y ago
  I list gay marriage and other socially liberal causes. I'm sure that some socially conservative HR managers that look at my pages will not choose me for a contracting gig. Is it foolish? Perhaps, but simultaneously they were signals that I wished to send out for other reasons. Similarly, people who include the tea party should not be discriminated against in employment. Yet people will do this subconsciously.
  - indigoviolet 16y ago
    You can choose to not display your interests on your Profile. They are still "public", but hidden on your Profile.
    - flipbrad 16y ago
      i have no idea what the hell that means, and quite frankly, therein lies facebook's problem.
      - indigoviolet 16y ago
        This is explained on your Profile settings page: "These settings only control the information people can see on your profile. This information, such as your Pages and list of friends, is still public, so it could appear elsewhere on the site and be accessed by applications you and your friends use." Here's a more detailed explanation: http://www.facebook.com/privacy/explanation.php http://www.facebook.com/privacy/explanation.php
char 16y ago
I was actually really annoyed by Facebook's new linking of profile items, but not at all because of privacy issues. (I really don't care if anyone sees the things I put on Facebook). I initially chose NOT to link any of my profile interests to their respective pages. I have no problem giving Facebook data for their open graph project; my fear was that I would soon be inundated with dozens of news feed items from all of my interests' Pages. So I unchecked all the items that had been on my profile for several years, thinking that they would still be displayed as simple text (as opposed to links). Instead, they were all deleted! So I took some time to (partially) rebuild my list of interests as links, only to then of course witness the flood of news items posted by those pages. I have been 'hiding' them as they show up. Hiss.
- indigoviolet 16y ago
  If you unchecked everything in the dialog, it warned you that everything would be deleted off your Profile. Did this not happen? The majority of interests you would've been linked to would not give you News Feed items (they're "voiceless" Pages).
  - char 16y ago
    I wasn't warned. I scanned the dialogue page to see if there was any information, but couldn't find anything. I definitely could have missed a text block if it were either at the very top or bottom of the page and of normal font-size. But I certainly didn't see anything like, 'WARNING! By not linking to these items they will be removed from your profile. Are you sure you want to continue?', which is something I usually experience before things are deleted. I understand fully that most of my profile items aren't actually associated with pages, or may be pages that don't post. But even taking that into consideration, there were still likely a few dozen (popular shows and bands, for example that I am positive have a presence on Facebook) that likely would be posting to my feed. I estimate I only added back 1/4 of the interests I had before, and about 10 of those posted on my feed today. It's fine because I can just hide them and actually obtain the settings I want, but it was a bit of a process.
    - 16y ago
indigoviolet 16y ago
What this article doesn't really clarify is that the author kept picking "Ask me later" in the dialog for the suggestions. It doesn't really make sense for Facebook to just keep letting you "snooze" that transition [keeping all data in two formats, maintaining two Profile formats, more headaches] -- which is why, the fifth time or so you see the dialog, it wants you to make a decision. [I work for Facebook. My opinions are my own.]
- Husafan 16y ago
  But you're not giving him a choice.. Why, after putting it off "too many," times, does it not give the choice to NOT link and not be asked anymore?
  - indigoviolet 16y ago
    Software evolves. No piece of software can afford to support every option and be backward compatible forever.
    - Husafan 16y ago
      So you're telling me that it is (prohibitively) difficult to maintain a couple of free-form text areas where users can list interests, past jobs, etc. for their FRIENDS to see without linking to public pages? I know this isn't beyond Facebook's engineering or infrastructure and it stinks of agenda, not evolution.
- mr_justin 16y ago
  What if my choice was to ignore your so-called forced choices and I click the back button instead? What impact does this have on my privacy?
vsync 16y ago
"kill-region"?

34 points by erickerr 16y ago

They were already linked.... but to a search field.... Now they are just linking to a fan page which pulls content from Wikipedia. And it used to news feed them when you changed them anyway ("XX has changed their television interests" or something to that extent)

krschultz 16y ago
They were not automatically public before, that is a much bigger deal than the change from search to page.
- p858snake 16y ago
  AFAIK^^ interests on new profiles are set as "Friends Only" by defaults and that was one of the defaults on the previous privacy rollout for pre-existing users after the cry out. All this does is change how the interests actually link (They used to be linked to a search field seeing who else had that text, Now they link to pre-formatted fan pages which still show who else like it but with descriptions from Wikipedia.) ^^Will need to check on my Alt FB account.
  - pak 16y ago
    Don't you love that you need a second FB account to check whether your privacy settings are actually in effect? It's indicative of how difficult it is to understand the privacy settings that are offered. Part of the reason Facebook is able to get away with so much of this is that when you are logged into Facebook, it never occurs to you how much of your information is being shown to other people; it's like a crowd of people with funny stickynotes attached to their forehead, everybody sees and is entertained by what they can see on other people's foreheads but they can't easily tell what is on their own.
    - flipbrad 16y ago
      wish they could somehow colour code things, maybe a toggle to colour code private/public stuff
      - indigoviolet 16y ago
        Try the "Preview my Profile" link on http://www.facebook.com/settings/?tab=privacy&section=personal_content http://www.facebook.com/settings/?tab=privacy&section=pe...
    - p858snake 16y ago
      No, my second account is for something else (that started as a joke), It just proves to be a useful testbed for these things. And they do provide methods of seeing what is available to friends (But that only works well if you have lists and stuff setup)

wrs 16y ago

Much as I love complaining about Facebook, the fact that they accurately derived the pages to be linked to means they already have this information. In fact I'm not even sure why they bother to ask.

krschultz 16y ago
They are asking because auto opt-in drew the ire of legislators, now they have the "we asked!" defense. Of course as this and other (http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebooks_high_pressure_tactics_opt-in_or_else.php http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebooks_high_pressure...) articles point out, the opt-in is both unclear and a bit forceful. Also FB has had backlash before over making things public so they are trying to nip that in the bud beforehand by allowing the vocal minority who understands/pays attention to this stuff to opt-out while the masses just click the "Accept All" button.
- shrikant 16y ago
  Except if you say No, they delete all your profile information. It's either links to Pages or nothing.
indigoviolet 16y ago
They were derived from the text you put on your Profile. Users were asked because it was the right thing to do, given that the algorithm would make some mistakes, and because converting the free text to Page connections meant that these would be hideable but public.

mikeknoop 16y ago

With this move, Facebook is turning many of your before-private profile fields into now-public "Page" connections. Any most users don't realize by clicking that blue button they are making everything public.

indigoviolet 16y ago
Did you read the three sentences on the top of that dialog? The third one reads, "Remember, your Pages are public". There is a more detailed explanation linked off of the "Learn more" link. [I work for Facebook, but my opinions are my own].
- sgman 16y ago
  Why not add an option to not make the pages public on that modal dialog? I can do it in the settings after all..
  - indigoviolet 16y ago
    No, Page connections are public. I don't think you can change that under Privacy settings -- you can not display them on your Profile if you so choose. The dialog took the conservative option of warning you that things were becoming public, rather than adding a potentially confusing "hide Pages" option on the dialog.
    - greyfade 16y ago
      I find this distateful. There's no Earthly reason to make those connections public except to expose personally-identifying information that the individual may not want to have exposed. This, to me, is a nightmare of Orwellian proportions. Take my advice: pull the plug.
- mikeknoop 16y ago
  Yes, that sentence does seek to inform users that their new Page connections are public -- especially those you take the time to read the dialog. However, in the last few days I've run across many Facebook users who chose to make these public connections when previously they had their interests and likes private. I suspect most of them clicked through the dialog without reading it or fully understanding the ramifications of their actions. You could argue that the user's ignorance and lack of reading available explanation is their problem, but it just seems a little unethical (on the grounds of previously knowing average users will click through dialogs) overall.

jrockway 16y ago

kill-region?

levesque 16y ago

Is that really so much of an issue? I'd rather keep using Facebook knowing that they index 5-10 pages I clicked 'like' on than just stop using it.

puffythefish 16y ago

Do you guys list a series of illegal activities as public interests on Facebook or something? Google's lack of privacy boundaries are much more disconcerting than this -- "Orwellian" seems to imply one being watched, which Facebook is not doing; you are publishing it yourself, to the Internet. This is just an example of poor UI design.

ebiester 16y ago
I list gay marriage and other socially liberal causes. I'm sure that some socially conservative HR managers that look at my pages will not choose me for a contracting gig. Is it foolish? Perhaps, but simultaneously they were signals that I wished to send out for other reasons. Similarly, people who include the tea party should not be discriminated against in employment. Yet people will do this subconsciously.
- indigoviolet 16y ago
  You can choose to not display your interests on your Profile. They are still "public", but hidden on your Profile.
  - flipbrad 16y ago
    i have no idea what the hell that means, and quite frankly, therein lies facebook's problem.
    - indigoviolet 16y ago
      This is explained on your Profile settings page: "These settings only control the information people can see on your profile. This information, such as your Pages and list of friends, is still public, so it could appear elsewhere on the site and be accessed by applications you and your friends use." Here's a more detailed explanation: http://www.facebook.com/privacy/explanation.php http://www.facebook.com/privacy/explanation.php

char 16y ago

I was actually really annoyed by Facebook's new linking of profile items, but not at all because of privacy issues. (I really don't care if anyone sees the things I put on Facebook). I initially chose NOT to link any of my profile interests to their respective pages. I have no problem giving Facebook data for their open graph project; my fear was that I would soon be inundated with dozens of news feed items from all of my interests' Pages. So I unchecked all the items that had been on my profile for several years, thinking that they would still be displayed as simple text (as opposed to links). Instead, they were all deleted! So I took some time to (partially) rebuild my list of interests as links, only to then of course witness the flood of news items posted by those pages. I have been 'hiding' them as they show up. Hiss.

indigoviolet 16y ago
If you unchecked everything in the dialog, it warned you that everything would be deleted off your Profile. Did this not happen? The majority of interests you would've been linked to would not give you News Feed items (they're "voiceless" Pages).
- char 16y ago
  I wasn't warned. I scanned the dialogue page to see if there was any information, but couldn't find anything. I definitely could have missed a text block if it were either at the very top or bottom of the page and of normal font-size. But I certainly didn't see anything like, 'WARNING! By not linking to these items they will be removed from your profile. Are you sure you want to continue?', which is something I usually experience before things are deleted. I understand fully that most of my profile items aren't actually associated with pages, or may be pages that don't post. But even taking that into consideration, there were still likely a few dozen (popular shows and bands, for example that I am positive have a presence on Facebook) that likely would be posting to my feed. I estimate I only added back 1/4 of the interests I had before, and about 10 of those posted on my feed today. It's fine because I can just hide them and actually obtain the settings I want, but it was a bit of a process.
  - 16y ago

indigoviolet 16y ago

What this article doesn't really clarify is that the author kept picking "Ask me later" in the dialog for the suggestions. It doesn't really make sense for Facebook to just keep letting you "snooze" that transition [keeping all data in two formats, maintaining two Profile formats, more headaches] -- which is why, the fifth time or so you see the dialog, it wants you to make a decision. [I work for Facebook. My opinions are my own.]

Husafan 16y ago
But you're not giving him a choice.. Why, after putting it off "too many," times, does it not give the choice to NOT link and not be asked anymore?
- indigoviolet 16y ago
  Software evolves. No piece of software can afford to support every option and be backward compatible forever.
  - Husafan 16y ago
    So you're telling me that it is (prohibitively) difficult to maintain a couple of free-form text areas where users can list interests, past jobs, etc. for their FRIENDS to see without linking to public pages? I know this isn't beyond Facebook's engineering or infrastructure and it stinks of agenda, not evolution.
mr_justin 16y ago
What if my choice was to ignore your so-called forced choices and I click the back button instead? What impact does this have on my privacy?

vsync 16y ago

"kill-region"?