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One problems I've found with these style of apps are the elderly community. My wife works at "In-Home healthcare" for the elderly community, specializing in ho

by kefka 10y ago

One problems I've found with these style of apps are the elderly community. My wife works at "In-Home healthcare" for the elderly community, specializing in hospice care. Because of this, she sees a lot of family members who get their parents tablets. It can be an iPad, or Android tablet. And it's used to facilitate cheap/free communication. (Don't worry, anything with app stores + in app payments are at fault, not $your_ecosystem.) The dark side, is when they start venturing around looking for "games". Now, think of what a game was 20 and 30 years ago. We're talking arcade, Nintendo, Atari.. That sort of thing. The psychological skinner-box wasn't really created as of yet (it was, but only in arcades, and even the bad ones people stayed away from). And then you have the "Freemium Apps". AKA money-bilking skinner boxes. Now, what makes these insidious, is the fact they ask for your credit card once, and keep it on file. Now, buying "virtual trash" is as easy as click click done. And conveniently drains your card. And it's done so well that you think you're doing with fake play money - when it's really your real account. My wife's already had a few clients got bit by this. It was a few thousand dollars, but enough to cause serious problems with someone who is on a fixed budget. Fortunately, the bank reversed much of it as fraudulent billing. Some of it was outside of dispute period, and was lost.

robocaptain 10y ago
I have an elderly family member with this exact problem. Even with constant reminding, it is an uphill battle. I suspect it is a combination of addiction but also "dark patterns" that essentially trick folks into spending money. One thing that helped is switching the family member to a True Link card: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Link While not perfect, it does root out the obvious scammers and does make it much easier to push back and cancel those reccuring subscriptions that "some how" keep getting activated. I have no affiliation with True Link, but posting it in hopes it can help someone with a similar problem. Edit: Just now realized True Link has a YC affiliation, so maybe this is more on topic than I thought.
- koolba 10y ago
  Why not just remove the payment card from their account? You don't need to have a card on file to install free apps and if you have no intention of buying anything, there's no reason to have one on file at all.
  - ido 10y ago
    I believe this is the situation on android but that on ios you need a card either way to download from the app store? Or at least this used to be the situation.
    - koolba 10y ago
      > I believe this is the situation on android but that on ios you need a card either way to download from the app store? > Or at least this used to be the situation. Nope and I've never had one attached so it's definitely not a new thing either. They do have a bit of a dark pattern to trick you into adding one when you first set up an Apple ID. IIRC, when you pick your credit card type (AmEx, VISA, etc) you can pick "No Credit Card" to skip it.
      - kefka 10y ago
        Yeah. I work in tech, and this has tripped me up many a time. Apple is extremely negligent about demanding a credit card, when I only want "free applications". Worse yet, with their app-storification of OSX, it's absolutely horrendous. And of course, only "richies" use OSX and Apple (enter here various websites that charge more for Mac users based upon browser ident strings).
    - wodenokoto 10y ago
      On iOS there is a supported, official, but completely non-obvious way to create a card-less account. (While logged out, buy a free app, when told you need an account, click to create one from this dialogue. This allows for the option for a card-less account)
partycoder 10y ago
You would be impressed of how many people in the transportation industry plays these games. Truck drivers are some of the highest revenue players.
jandrese 10y ago
One partial solution might be to simply turn off IAP on the device. I know Apple devices can do this, and I guess Android ones can too. This way they can download and play games, but won't get suckered into spending thousands of real life dollars on e-potatoes because some shitty app has deceptive IAP.
tn13 10y ago
Why is this even a problem in this day and age ? Why add a credit card to the android tablet in first place? If you have to please buy a prepaid store credit card. Heck, I have not given my credit card to my Android phone. I use SudoPay.
Eridrus 10y ago
It will be interesting to see if the money will be clawed back in this case.

by kefka 10y ago

robocaptain 10y ago

I have an elderly family member with this exact problem. Even with constant reminding, it is an uphill battle. I suspect it is a combination of addiction but also "dark patterns" that essentially trick folks into spending money. One thing that helped is switching the family member to a True Link card: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Link While not perfect, it does root out the obvious scammers and does make it much easier to push back and cancel those reccuring subscriptions that "some how" keep getting activated. I have no affiliation with True Link, but posting it in hopes it can help someone with a similar problem. Edit: Just now realized True Link has a YC affiliation, so maybe this is more on topic than I thought.

koolba 10y ago
Why not just remove the payment card from their account? You don't need to have a card on file to install free apps and if you have no intention of buying anything, there's no reason to have one on file at all.
- ido 10y ago
  I believe this is the situation on android but that on ios you need a card either way to download from the app store? Or at least this used to be the situation.
  - koolba 10y ago
    > I believe this is the situation on android but that on ios you need a card either way to download from the app store? > Or at least this used to be the situation. Nope and I've never had one attached so it's definitely not a new thing either. They do have a bit of a dark pattern to trick you into adding one when you first set up an Apple ID. IIRC, when you pick your credit card type (AmEx, VISA, etc) you can pick "No Credit Card" to skip it.
    - kefka 10y ago
      Yeah. I work in tech, and this has tripped me up many a time. Apple is extremely negligent about demanding a credit card, when I only want "free applications". Worse yet, with their app-storification of OSX, it's absolutely horrendous. And of course, only "richies" use OSX and Apple (enter here various websites that charge more for Mac users based upon browser ident strings).
  - wodenokoto 10y ago
    On iOS there is a supported, official, but completely non-obvious way to create a card-less account. (While logged out, buy a free app, when told you need an account, click to create one from this dialogue. This allows for the option for a card-less account)

partycoder 10y ago

You would be impressed of how many people in the transportation industry plays these games. Truck drivers are some of the highest revenue players.

jandrese 10y ago

One partial solution might be to simply turn off IAP on the device. I know Apple devices can do this, and I guess Android ones can too. This way they can download and play games, but won't get suckered into spending thousands of real life dollars on e-potatoes because some shitty app has deceptive IAP.

tn13 10y ago

Why is this even a problem in this day and age ? Why add a credit card to the android tablet in first place? If you have to please buy a prepaid store credit card. Heck, I have not given my credit card to my Android phone. I use SudoPay.

Eridrus 10y ago

It will be interesting to see if the money will be clawed back in this case.