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“Causing the unnecessary use of opioids by current and retired U.S. military service members shows disregard for their health and disrespect for their service t

• noir_lord 10y ago
  Because the US has a weird fetishistic thing going with their vets, all that "fighting for our freedom" when you are the biggest richest and most heavily armed country on the planet your freedom (from external threats) was never under doubt. A lot of it I think is an over reaction to the way returning troops from vietnam where treated. In either case, strong reverence for the military is one of the criteria for a fascist state. EDIT: http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm Since someone called what I said inflammatory I posted where I read the military reverence thing.
  • grzm 10y ago
    … the US has a weird fetishistic thing going with their vets … In either case, strong reverence for the military is one of the criteria for a fascist state. Please don't introduce inflammatory language like this unnecessarily into a thread. It's quite off-topic for the submission. Edited to expand and clarify.
    • mindcrime 10y ago
      That's not "inflammatory language", it's just a well known fact.
      • deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
    • noir_lord 10y ago
      http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm Nothing inflammatory about pointing out something a respected academic said. If you think its inflammatory read the full list and compare it to contemporary democratic states.
      • deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      • rat87 10y ago
        https://www.amazon.com/June-2004-Laurence-W-Britt/dp/1884962203 https://www.amazon.com/June-2004-Laurence-W-Britt/dp/1884962... Laurence-W-Britt seems to be an author. I can't find him so I can't say for certain he's not a doctor but I don't think he is. Also your link is from rense (a white supremacist/conspiracy site), it doesn't seem to have been the origin(originally from a humanist magazine) and may have been republished without consent but it does undercut your point.
      • pjc50 10y ago
        Isn't that list borrowed from Umberto Eco? It's certainly a very weird site to link to.
        • noir_lord 10y ago
          Yeah I think I saw the list elsewhere the first time and my google-fu failed, I'd swap the link but I'm outside the edit window, which is irritating as always.
    • ionised 10y ago
      It's not inflammatory if it is demonstrably true.
  • idle_processor 10y ago
    > A lot of it I think is an over reaction to the way returning troops from vietnam where treated. Cultural concern for veterans coming home and being treated poorly, or being unable to readjust to civilian life, definitely predates the Vietnam war. Consider "The Best Years of Our Lives"[0] from 1946, set after WW2. [0] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036868/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036868/
    • mavelikara 10y ago
      > Cultural concern for veterans coming home and being treated poorly, or being unable to readjust to civilian life, definitely predates the Vietnam war. "Johnny I hardly knew ye" was first published in 1867 and echoes similar concerns. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_I_Hardly_Knew_Ye https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_I_Hardly_Knew_Ye
    • rat87 10y ago
      Minority War veterans and the shabby treatment was a big argument for the civil rights movement and allied politicians. They can die next to a white man in Korea but they couldn't buy a sandwich at a lunch counter next to them. Many veterans coming back from the war refused to be oppressed anymore and became civil rights leaders. https://utpress.utexas.edu/books/rivas-rodriguez-texas-mexican-americans-civil-rights https://utpress.utexas.edu/books/rivas-rodriguez-texas-mexic... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/11/felix-longoria-affair_n_4255131.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/11/felix-longoria-affa... The Felix Longoria affair in which a Mexican-Texan veteran was denied who died in the war was denied burial by the local funeral. The American G.I. Forum an association of mexican american vets helped organize a protest and sent a letter asking help from Senator (and future president) LBJ, who arranged to have him buried in Arlington and initially publically supported the veteran but later ducked and covered from the conservative backlash. The G.I. Forum would become a powerful civil rights organization over the years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Woodard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Woodard Isaac was an African American World War II veteran who was beaten while still in uniform (hours after an honorable discharge) until he was blinded (because he had talked back to the bus driver when the bus driver refused to let him use the bathroom. the driver called the cops on him). This was a major scandal that helped inform the nation and especially President Truman about the evils of Jim Crow but he couldn't pass civil rights laws past the senate. All he was able to do was desegregate the army and federal goverment by executive order.
  • raverbashing 10y ago
    They're still in a foreign place risking their lives and getting shot at I agree there's an idealized view but it's easy to complain when one is not involved
    • noir_lord 10y ago
      On the other hand they are a volunteer army who chose to sign up, I'm not attacking them just pointing that out I'd be a lot more sympathetic to conscripted soldiers who didn't have a choice. These days its hard to say anyone signs up for the military in the major democracies without realising what they where signing up for.
      • cguess 10y ago
        Eh, tell that to the broke kid from Centre(sic), Alabama who has the choice between working at the 711 and probably getting a nice meth addiction (or watching most of his high school deal with their own), slinging meth himself eventually ending up doing 5-10 in the state pen, or the Army. The Army recruiters promise college, which he damn well can't afford in three lifetimes, training, a sense of honor, and a trip out of a red neck suck hole that took his dad, brother and most of his buddies so deep they can't see sun. It's "volunteer" in the sense that you technically make the choice. But for a lot of kids signing up those choices are sleeping on the couch in the trailer park, a prison cell or an Army cot.
        • finid 10y ago
          While the choice for volunteers is bad, the state has a much better option - divert some of that money spent on the military and spend it on improving many aspects of society that need it. I recall a situation from around the early 1990s when there was a proposal to spend about $2 billion on public education. The reaction from lawmakers was like this: Where the heck are we going to get all that money from? That was just $2 billion! Funding Operation Desert Storm was no big deal.
      • anon1385 10y ago
        >These days its hard to say anyone signs up for the military in the major democracies without realising what they where signing up for. The British armed forces recruit children from the age of 16. I don't agree that 15/16 year olds in their final year of compulsory education know what they are signing up for when the army recruiters come to their school. There are campaigns to change this, but as far as I know they haven't achieved much support. For example: http://battlefieldcasualties.co.uk http://battlefieldcasualties.co.uk (the powerful video on this site is also relevant to the wider points being discussed upthread about the treatment of ex-military people and how it compares to the fetishisation of the military in other contexts)
  • ihsw 10y ago
    > In either case, strong reverence for the military is one of the criteria for a fascist state. Just to provide a contrarian viewpoint -- strong disdain for the military is one of the criteria for a weak state rife with degeneracy and malignancy. The military serves an important function in society and personally I think it deserves far more recognition than profit-seeking hounds with low moral standards (ie: the scum referenced in the article).
    • JohnStrange 10y ago
      Just to provide a contrarian viewpoint -- strong disdain for the military is one of the criteria for a weak state rife with degeneracy and malignancy. Uhm, no. For example, Liechtenstein, Palau, and Vatican City do not have a military and they do not seem to be "rife with degeneracy and malignacy" - well perhaps Vatican City, but not the other two.
    • pjc50 10y ago
      "degeneracy and malignancy"? Can you unpack that into some slightly less 19-th century English please?
      • eli_gottlieb 10y ago
        A 19th-century mindset can't really be unpacked into 21st-century words.
    • ionised 10y ago
      > Just to provide a contrarian viewpoint -- strong disdain for the military is one of the criteria for a weak state rife with degeneracy and malignancy. Any evidence for this?
  • rat87 10y ago
    Rense is a conspiracy/racist site and if Dr. Lawrence Britt is an actual doctor I can't google him Try some of the definitions of facism from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism some may meet your needs.
  • nerdponx 10y ago
    Glorification of war and wanting to support veterans after returning from war are two very different things. I'm from the US, and the attitude towards veterans has always been to support them almost in spite of the fact that they're being sent off to war.
  • 0xfeba 10y ago
    I've never understood this. The US has a very peculiar perversion of military worship. It's very, very shallow. Respect the troops! But the Veterans Affairs is one of the most poorly run of the government departments. Underfunded and incompetently staffed. So, the US has many private charities and organizations to help veterans. It seems silly. If there's one thing that a country so supposedly patriotic and morally superior ("exceptional") could do to show it, then it should be a 'no brainer' to try and live up to that and to take care of people who (now voluntarily signed up) to risk their lives for their country. This is more akin to North Korea's version--except the DPRK really is too poor to take care of them.
    • noir_lord 10y ago
      Its much easier to say "support the troops" than it is to actually support them, we have pretty much the same problem in the UK in regards to not supporting the troops properly after they get out/injured. Whatever you believe about military forces and usage on a societal level we should look after them at least as well as everyone else.
      • cr0sh 10y ago
        > Its much easier to say "support the troops" than it is to actually support them Kinda like how some people say "I'll pray for you" - rather than, you know, actually -doing- something to help...
        • r_smart 10y ago
          While I agree praying doesn't do anything, you're overlooking that there are a lot of people that strongly disagree with us. To them, praying is an important act, and praying for you is likely something they will literally do because they think it will help. Granted, there are many people who say it as a platitude but don't actually do it.
          • cr0sh 10y ago
            > you're overlooking that there are a lot of people that strongly disagree with us. No - I am not overlooking these people. I know very well that they exist, and I often find myself wondering about their thinking process. I say this also as a former person of faith (Wicca), as I often wonder about my own at the time, my own today, and the what/why of the changeover. I have yet to be able to answer that satisfactorily for myself. > To them, praying is an important act, and praying for you is likely something they will literally do because they think it will help. I understand that, but it also goes counter to published research which indicates that those who are prayed for do worse than those who aren't (I believe the study was in regards to patients recovering in a hospital, and that they were told whether or not they were being prayed for). The difference in rates of recovery were very minor (IIRC, less than 1 percent) - and other studies have shown the opposite. Ultimately, everything indicates that it is no better than random chance. I just wonder why people, despite being presented such evidence, choose fantasy over reality. > Granted, there are many people who say it as a platitude but don't actually do it. Those who do this, I hold in high contempt - above and beyond those who believe it will actually help. Because the true faithful are showing compassion toward the less fortunate (regardless of the actual outcome), while those saying it as a platitude are just doing so to gain some kind of "social points", likely knowing fully that their words mean nothing. Separating the two classes, though, can be difficult or impossible, unfortunately...
• ars 10y ago
  The idea is that veterans are more susceptible to these kinds of problems (as you write). The veterans knew this, but accepted it in order to serve. So targeting them this way is disrespecting their service. Kind of "we'll agree to serve, if you agree to protect us after".