8 ms·

> They are teaching kids not to be kind to sad friends, but to report them to the authorities instead. I've heard that this is a particularly American attitude

by nether 10y ago

> They are teaching kids not to be kind to sad friends, but to report them to the authorities instead. I've heard that this is a particularly American attitude, that the mentally ill should be isolated with a clinician before doing anything else in life. Can any non-Americans say what their cultural attitude is? I've also heard that Indian culture is pretty much the opposite in this respect.

Swizec 10y ago
Where I'm from the attitude is mostly "If you have time for this, it must mean you don't have real problems in life. Ain't nobody got time for mental health when shit hits the fan and there are hungry mouths to feed" I like the "don't be a victim" attitude, but it's a very trial by fire kind of thing. We have one of the highest suicide rates in europe. Both the general attitude and the suicide rate have been improving in the recent decade or two. Emphasis is on therapy rather than pharmaceuticals.
zaptheimpaler 10y ago
I am an Indian immigrant living in America. I think what you said is very true. There is even more stigma about "mental health" issues in India so we might not label many things as mental issues, but people are generally more supportive and social, even a little intrusive into others lives. When a friend is having issues, their social group will actively try to get them to socialize, talk about stuff and cheer them up. They will insist that you don't go under the radar and disappear. The American attitude of extreme individuality, personal limits seems kind of ridiculous to me at times. Like I don't even understand what the hell a friend is supposed to be if you can't be honest with them when you're down. Someone to share some good times with is a fair-weather friend, but not at all the same thing as a genuine friend. Sometimes it feels like you have to constantly live with a mask on, even with friends and family. And then when you get lonely and tired of the mask, you are supposed to find a soulmate who will be the sole person you are allowed to be honest and seek help from.. sometimes its not enough. You know a major component in many mental illnesses is letting people isolate themselves. And mental illnesses have been around forever, but they were dealt with by help from society around you. This is an innate, human thing. There is an epidemic of loneliness and isolation in western societies because of the extreme individualism everywhere. Finally, its fucking ridiculous the amount of trust people have in "authorities". "No we won't talk to you about your mental issues because fuck you, but hey why don't you go pay to talk to a stranger instead"? What? Why is that better? Isn't a friend/family member much better positioned to understand your problems and offer some perspective? Of course, the Indian way has some problems too. One, a shit-ton of stigma and judgement by broader society if they find out. And at some point you're supposed to just "man up and get your shit together". And mental health doctors are still not trusted at all. Although, given the recent state of psych studies and the replication failures, they might just be right. /rant Sorry this is a little hostile.. I obviously don't have a full picture of everything, this is just my biased but honest opinion.
- pif 10y ago
  I can't and don't want to judge American/Western/whatever attitude towards these serious problem, but I've 2 cents to add: > Isn't a friend/family member much better positioned to understand your problems and offer some perspective? While full support from your social environment is important, seeking good professional help is even more important. The more serious the mental issue, the less friendliness can substitute proper therapy.
  - zaptheimpaler 10y ago
    Agreed for more serious problems. But if you have a milder problem, maybe a little bit of depression or anxiety I think social help is more effective than professional help. And that is the more common case.
    - eivarv 10y ago
      Why draw the line at those disorders? Or ar you perhaps talking about experiencing some of the symptoms of these disorders to a healthy extent - i.e. normal emotions? Anxiety disorders and depressive disorders can be bad enough to wreak havoc on a persons life.
      - zaptheimpaler 10y ago
        >Why draw the line at those disorders? >Anxiety disorders and depressive disorders can be bad enough to wreak havoc on a persons life. I am sure they can wreak havoc, having faced some myself. Not saying they are not real problems. I just think that in many cases, support of social groups, exercise etc. are more effective treatments than going to a therapist/psychiatrist or taking medication. For example, exercise is now proven to be about as effective or more as an antidepressant. Mindfulness is now being talked about as a very effective treatment for anxiety/depression. People have been saying this kind of stuff for years, but they had zero legitimacy and were laughed at before the science came along. Meditation/mindfulness was considered spiritual hippie-bullshit, now all of a sudden its a viable and effective treatment.. So it just makes me think, when we are talking about as nascent and complicated a science as psychology, there is some value in "folk remedies" and "common sense" which are all too often dismissed as not being scientific enough. Yet that still happens. Do we really have to wait for a hundred studies before we accept that there might be better solutions in common wisdom outside of the current science? Particularly given that many of those remedies can't cause any harm, there is no risk to trying it. Anyways, I am all for therapy and medication if thats what one wants. Just saying that an environment of disconnection breeds more mental illness, like an unsanitary environment breeds more physical illness.
pjc50 10y ago
British system: there's still a large element of "stiff upper lip" and refusing to talk about it, but that's changing. Non-acute care: go to your GP. You get a fairly time-limited interview, following which you can sometimes get on the waiting list for CBT or other forms of therapy but will far more likely be prescribed an anti-depressant. Acute events: the police are often the front line here, as in America, but unlike America are unlikely to shoot the person they've been sent to help. The police complain that this kind of work takes a lot of their time. Once danger to self and others has passed in a situation, the person will end up in hospital for a while before being passed on to social services, who may or may not have time to follow up. People who are unable to look after themselves long-term due to the severity of their condition: might get lucky with social services, might not. It helps a great deal if you have someone who can advocate for you here.
louprado 10y ago
I had an odd conversation with a Afghani immigrant recently regarding mental health. He claimed that Muslims are less likely to suffer from mental illness than non-Muslims. But rather than over crediting his religion, he stated it is because Muslims take a physical position that rushes blood to the head during their multiple daily prayer sessions. While mediation has been shown to improve mental health (so I assume prayer would too), I'd be curious if there were studies that combine meditation and slightly inverted positions. edit: clarity
- the-dude 10y ago
  I know of studies here in The Netherlands, psychosis is more common in immigrants from (North) Africa.
rwallace 10y ago
Irishman here. I think you've heard correctly. Over here, everyone either has or knows someone who has some kind of mental health problem, in the same way that everyone either has or knows someone who has some kind of autoimmune disease. It sucks, but it's an unavoidable part of life and not usually considered grounds for putting someone in the loony bin. The society described in the article sounds like a nightmare dystopia.
- ep103 10y ago
  This article hit home for me, really hard. To the point that I'm considering writing an email to the author, which is something I've never done before. I don't have a mental illness, but I watched my roommate / best friend in college succumb to schizophrenia, and the university's reaction, at an Ivy League institution. And the paragraphs this author wrote there are 100% spot on. If anything, she could have been much more vitriolic, but I think wisely chose to not delve into that issue, for risk of detracting from her major points. The thing is, though, its most certainly a socioeconomic issue. I remember for years, I used to drive 4+ hours to visit my friends at Rutgers University. My friends there didn't have those same attitudes as the Ivy League. The people there didn't have that attitude. I often used to genuinely wonder if a certain percentage of the kids I knew from the Ivy were genuinely taught that sort of behavior as some sort of corporeal manifestation of ideal capitalism or something, because it just seemed inhumane, and I could never square how it could naturally arise without being taught. Even now, 10+ years later. Most high school friends have drifted away, but I still keep in contact with many of my collegiate friends. And out of all the friends I've made since, my collegiate friends, the ones I've known for over a decade, are the only ones that have that sort of calculating distance the author describes. But perhaps I digress.
  - nether 10y ago
    > I often used to genuinely wonder if a certain percentage of the kids I knew from the Ivy were genuinely taught that sort of behavior as some sort of corporeal manifestation of ideal capitalism or something, because it just seemed inhumane, and I could never square how it could naturally arise without being taught. These institutions were founded by puritans and perpetuate the puritan work ethic. Toughness, discipline, not softness. It's very similar to toxic masculinity.

by nether 10y ago

Swizec 10y ago

Where I'm from the attitude is mostly "If you have time for this, it must mean you don't have real problems in life. Ain't nobody got time for mental health when shit hits the fan and there are hungry mouths to feed" I like the "don't be a victim" attitude, but it's a very trial by fire kind of thing. We have one of the highest suicide rates in europe. Both the general attitude and the suicide rate have been improving in the recent decade or two. Emphasis is on therapy rather than pharmaceuticals.

zaptheimpaler 10y ago

I am an Indian immigrant living in America. I think what you said is very true. There is even more stigma about "mental health" issues in India so we might not label many things as mental issues, but people are generally more supportive and social, even a little intrusive into others lives. When a friend is having issues, their social group will actively try to get them to socialize, talk about stuff and cheer them up. They will insist that you don't go under the radar and disappear. The American attitude of extreme individuality, personal limits seems kind of ridiculous to me at times. Like I don't even understand what the hell a friend is supposed to be if you can't be honest with them when you're down. Someone to share some good times with is a fair-weather friend, but not at all the same thing as a genuine friend. Sometimes it feels like you have to constantly live with a mask on, even with friends and family. And then when you get lonely and tired of the mask, you are supposed to find a soulmate who will be the sole person you are allowed to be honest and seek help from.. sometimes its not enough. You know a major component in many mental illnesses is letting people isolate themselves. And mental illnesses have been around forever, but they were dealt with by help from society around you. This is an innate, human thing. There is an epidemic of loneliness and isolation in western societies because of the extreme individualism everywhere. Finally, its fucking ridiculous the amount of trust people have in "authorities". "No we won't talk to you about your mental issues because fuck you, but hey why don't you go pay to talk to a stranger instead"? What? Why is that better? Isn't a friend/family member much better positioned to understand your problems and offer some perspective? Of course, the Indian way has some problems too. One, a shit-ton of stigma and judgement by broader society if they find out. And at some point you're supposed to just "man up and get your shit together". And mental health doctors are still not trusted at all. Although, given the recent state of psych studies and the replication failures, they might just be right. /rant Sorry this is a little hostile.. I obviously don't have a full picture of everything, this is just my biased but honest opinion.

pif 10y ago
I can't and don't want to judge American/Western/whatever attitude towards these serious problem, but I've 2 cents to add: > Isn't a friend/family member much better positioned to understand your problems and offer some perspective? While full support from your social environment is important, seeking good professional help is even more important. The more serious the mental issue, the less friendliness can substitute proper therapy.
- zaptheimpaler 10y ago
  Agreed for more serious problems. But if you have a milder problem, maybe a little bit of depression or anxiety I think social help is more effective than professional help. And that is the more common case.
  - eivarv 10y ago
    Why draw the line at those disorders? Or ar you perhaps talking about experiencing some of the symptoms of these disorders to a healthy extent - i.e. normal emotions? Anxiety disorders and depressive disorders can be bad enough to wreak havoc on a persons life.
    - zaptheimpaler 10y ago
      >Why draw the line at those disorders? >Anxiety disorders and depressive disorders can be bad enough to wreak havoc on a persons life. I am sure they can wreak havoc, having faced some myself. Not saying they are not real problems. I just think that in many cases, support of social groups, exercise etc. are more effective treatments than going to a therapist/psychiatrist or taking medication. For example, exercise is now proven to be about as effective or more as an antidepressant. Mindfulness is now being talked about as a very effective treatment for anxiety/depression. People have been saying this kind of stuff for years, but they had zero legitimacy and were laughed at before the science came along. Meditation/mindfulness was considered spiritual hippie-bullshit, now all of a sudden its a viable and effective treatment.. So it just makes me think, when we are talking about as nascent and complicated a science as psychology, there is some value in "folk remedies" and "common sense" which are all too often dismissed as not being scientific enough. Yet that still happens. Do we really have to wait for a hundred studies before we accept that there might be better solutions in common wisdom outside of the current science? Particularly given that many of those remedies can't cause any harm, there is no risk to trying it. Anyways, I am all for therapy and medication if thats what one wants. Just saying that an environment of disconnection breeds more mental illness, like an unsanitary environment breeds more physical illness.

pjc50 10y ago

British system: there's still a large element of "stiff upper lip" and refusing to talk about it, but that's changing. Non-acute care: go to your GP. You get a fairly time-limited interview, following which you can sometimes get on the waiting list for CBT or other forms of therapy but will far more likely be prescribed an anti-depressant. Acute events: the police are often the front line here, as in America, but unlike America are unlikely to shoot the person they've been sent to help. The police complain that this kind of work takes a lot of their time. Once danger to self and others has passed in a situation, the person will end up in hospital for a while before being passed on to social services, who may or may not have time to follow up. People who are unable to look after themselves long-term due to the severity of their condition: might get lucky with social services, might not. It helps a great deal if you have someone who can advocate for you here.

louprado 10y ago

I had an odd conversation with a Afghani immigrant recently regarding mental health. He claimed that Muslims are less likely to suffer from mental illness than non-Muslims. But rather than over crediting his religion, he stated it is because Muslims take a physical position that rushes blood to the head during their multiple daily prayer sessions. While mediation has been shown to improve mental health (so I assume prayer would too), I'd be curious if there were studies that combine meditation and slightly inverted positions. edit: clarity

the-dude 10y ago
I know of studies here in The Netherlands, psychosis is more common in immigrants from (North) Africa.

rwallace 10y ago

Irishman here. I think you've heard correctly. Over here, everyone either has or knows someone who has some kind of mental health problem, in the same way that everyone either has or knows someone who has some kind of autoimmune disease. It sucks, but it's an unavoidable part of life and not usually considered grounds for putting someone in the loony bin. The society described in the article sounds like a nightmare dystopia.

ep103 10y ago
This article hit home for me, really hard. To the point that I'm considering writing an email to the author, which is something I've never done before. I don't have a mental illness, but I watched my roommate / best friend in college succumb to schizophrenia, and the university's reaction, at an Ivy League institution. And the paragraphs this author wrote there are 100% spot on. If anything, she could have been much more vitriolic, but I think wisely chose to not delve into that issue, for risk of detracting from her major points. The thing is, though, its most certainly a socioeconomic issue. I remember for years, I used to drive 4+ hours to visit my friends at Rutgers University. My friends there didn't have those same attitudes as the Ivy League. The people there didn't have that attitude. I often used to genuinely wonder if a certain percentage of the kids I knew from the Ivy were genuinely taught that sort of behavior as some sort of corporeal manifestation of ideal capitalism or something, because it just seemed inhumane, and I could never square how it could naturally arise without being taught. Even now, 10+ years later. Most high school friends have drifted away, but I still keep in contact with many of my collegiate friends. And out of all the friends I've made since, my collegiate friends, the ones I've known for over a decade, are the only ones that have that sort of calculating distance the author describes. But perhaps I digress.
- nether 10y ago
  > I often used to genuinely wonder if a certain percentage of the kids I knew from the Ivy were genuinely taught that sort of behavior as some sort of corporeal manifestation of ideal capitalism or something, because it just seemed inhumane, and I could never square how it could naturally arise without being taught. These institutions were founded by puritans and perpetuate the puritan work ethic. Toughness, discipline, not softness. It's very similar to toxic masculinity.