23 ms·

Sane Thinking About Mental Health Problems

140 points by devinhelton 10y ago

orionblastar 10y ago
I grew up with major depression and a major mood disorder. My doctor thought I was autistic but when she gave me an IQ test I was high functioning and in 1975 they didn't discover high functioning autism until later in the 1990s. So I was diagnosed(misdiagnosed) as depressed. I was picked on by bullies, physical, mental, emotional abuse, etc. Just because I was different in some way, called an Oddball because of X or Y, that is something the other kids didn't have. I managed to graduate high school and college and was working a good job until I developed schizoaffective disorder in 2001. It is like bipolar with schizophrenic cycles. Less than 0.5% of the population suffers from it and it is very rare so not everyone knows about it. In 2003 I ended up on disability as I could not find a job, and could not hide that I was mentally ill. ADA says one cannot be discriminated against because of a mental disability or mental illness, but I was called overqualified or any other reason to reject me. As I grew older I also have age discrimination. I wish I can say it gets better, but it is like fighting with demons in your head to keep the negative thoughts away. The thought that say you are worthless, or that you will fail, nobody likes you anymore, you are past your prime, etc. The medicine helps treat a chemical imbalance but not all mental illnesses are due to chemical imbalances. Getting a good doctor is hard as well. I'm 48 and have been suicidal about 14 times in my life. I'm still alive to talk about it, so I survived somehow. Generation-X is called the suicide generation because of so many of my generation killing themselves or getting suicidal. It is like life is so hard to live, you are on expert mode and struggling just to wake up in the morning and get ready for work, and by the time you get to work you used up most if not all of your mental energy to get up and get ready. http://boingboing.net/2016/12/11/insiders-americas-largest-c.html http://boingboing.net/2016/12/11/insiders-americas-largest-c... Mental Hospitals as shown in that above link, are not always for helping mentally ill people and some are run like prisons and they keep you there until your insurance runs out to maximize their profits. A mental illness is an invisible disability, when companies think of disabled people, they think of someone in a wheel chair, a deaf person, a blind person, someone missing body parts, etc. They never consider a mentally ill person or accommodating them. If the stress is too much and it is making you sick, other employees will do things to you to see how angry they can make you. Just because you can't smile due to flat effect paralyzing your face muscles, some employees think you might be up to something because you have a 'poker face' and didn't wave back to them when you walked in during the morning because you are too busy fighting demons in your head to see people wave at you. There is no cure, no magic, it does not go away, you just try to learn skills to cope with it and find ways to screen out negative thoughts and maybe try a different medicine and see if it works better. I am not 100% recovered, but I am making progress and trying to get back into programming. I am writing this to let people know that there is no magic bullet to kill the mental illnesses, and that we are not all violent like those public shooters they call mentally ill but they are sociopaths and most of us are not, we are just dysfunctional in some way.
- virmundi 10y ago
  This is why I don't seek professional help. In the US we treat depression as a clinical disease, but more a massive weakness. If you get diagnosed, it's hard to keep living a normal life. The State comes in and never leaves. You can never get back to normal. They will say your depression is in regression. I know how you feel. I'd rather preserve my right to kill myself than have it medicated, occasionally by force, by the State.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    I have a number of friends with serious, diagnosed mental health issues, and it has not been my experience with any of them that the State has come in at all, let alone refused to leave. What in your experience suggests otherwise?
    - virmundi 10y ago
      If you have a registered firearm some jurisdictions will demand the weapon. If you refuse, you get Baker Act'ed. Once they take the firearm, they hold it because they do not view a depressive as mentally fit, ever, for it. You can also go on a registry of mentally defects which prevent you from purchasing another firearm. Some employers covertly access the same list making it hard to get gainful employment in more sensitive tech areas.
      - tptacek 10y ago
        I'm sorry, what list are you referring to, that tech employers consult to discriminate against people with health problems?
        virmundi 10y ago
        They can run background checks which include mental illness. That same gun report can be run by non-sellers. http://everytown.org/press/new-fbi-data-shows-mental-health-records-in-background-check-system-tripled-since-release-of-fatal-gaps-report-pressed-states-to-submit-records-of-prohibited-gun-purchasers/ http://everytown.org/press/new-fbi-data-shows-mental-health-...
nether 10y ago
> They are teaching kids not to be kind to sad friends, but to report them to the authorities instead. I've heard that this is a particularly American attitude, that the mentally ill should be isolated with a clinician before doing anything else in life. Can any non-Americans say what their cultural attitude is? I've also heard that Indian culture is pretty much the opposite in this respect.
- Swizec 10y ago
  Where I'm from the attitude is mostly "If you have time for this, it must mean you don't have real problems in life. Ain't nobody got time for mental health when shit hits the fan and there are hungry mouths to feed" I like the "don't be a victim" attitude, but it's a very trial by fire kind of thing. We have one of the highest suicide rates in europe. Both the general attitude and the suicide rate have been improving in the recent decade or two. Emphasis is on therapy rather than pharmaceuticals.
- zaptheimpaler 10y ago
  I am an Indian immigrant living in America. I think what you said is very true. There is even more stigma about "mental health" issues in India so we might not label many things as mental issues, but people are generally more supportive and social, even a little intrusive into others lives. When a friend is having issues, their social group will actively try to get them to socialize, talk about stuff and cheer them up. They will insist that you don't go under the radar and disappear. The American attitude of extreme individuality, personal limits seems kind of ridiculous to me at times. Like I don't even understand what the hell a friend is supposed to be if you can't be honest with them when you're down. Someone to share some good times with is a fair-weather friend, but not at all the same thing as a genuine friend. Sometimes it feels like you have to constantly live with a mask on, even with friends and family. And then when you get lonely and tired of the mask, you are supposed to find a soulmate who will be the sole person you are allowed to be honest and seek help from.. sometimes its not enough. You know a major component in many mental illnesses is letting people isolate themselves. And mental illnesses have been around forever, but they were dealt with by help from society around you. This is an innate, human thing. There is an epidemic of loneliness and isolation in western societies because of the extreme individualism everywhere. Finally, its fucking ridiculous the amount of trust people have in "authorities". "No we won't talk to you about your mental issues because fuck you, but hey why don't you go pay to talk to a stranger instead"? What? Why is that better? Isn't a friend/family member much better positioned to understand your problems and offer some perspective? Of course, the Indian way has some problems too. One, a shit-ton of stigma and judgement by broader society if they find out. And at some point you're supposed to just "man up and get your shit together". And mental health doctors are still not trusted at all. Although, given the recent state of psych studies and the replication failures, they might just be right. /rant Sorry this is a little hostile.. I obviously don't have a full picture of everything, this is just my biased but honest opinion.
devoply 10y ago
I personally think that mental illness is the rule and not the exception for human beings. It's just functioning mental illness which is validated vs. dysfunctional mental illness which is not validated. Most people, if not every single person, is mentally ill in some way. It's just when they start being dysfunctional that we call it out as mental illness and then they have to do a whole ritual to try to get rid of it or figure out ways to diminish its effects on the person. And often it's the environment that makes people mentally ill. It's not even the person. So how can you treat the effect without changing the cause? You can't. Dave Chapelle here is talking about mental illness caused by Hollywood, he says calling someone mentally ill is dismissive, it's not the people ... but the environment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRzqsfO8F4U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRzqsfO8F4U
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  I believe you are absolutely right. We all believe delusional things. Right now you more than likely have multiple if not many beliefs that are not rooted in reality. Even the smartest people have these. Society validates some illnesses or disorders and shuns other (sometimes for good reason). We often see success in and of itself as a validation, when people can become successful in spite of flawed thinking or behavior. Society can breed mental illness and it might be doing that right now.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  "It's just functioning mental illness which is validated vs dysrunctional mental illness which is not validated" To be fair, this is the very thing that makes mental illness ... mental illness. It isn't that normal folks don't have some abnormalities and illnesses, but the fact that it affects their lives and prevents, to some extent, them taking part in a normal life. Sometimes it plagues folks. In a way, it is kind of like blood pressure. Everyone has blood pressure, some higher than others. A few people that run a little high don't need to do anything. Some people take meds, and some do diet and exercise and such things. This all depends on what their blood pressure responds to and what the cause is - some folks get it genetically, others through diet and lack of exercise. Edit: It is an easy example only, not trying to minimize mental health issues.
justindocanto 10y ago
I agree that it's more productive to advise students to be wary than to express outrage at an institution. This should be read by all incoming college freshmen.
projektir 10y ago
Wow, this article describes all the things I've been thinking about for a very long time, and how hard it is to properly talk to someone about anything because any discussion just goes to "everyone should see a professional and we can't talk to people". We made mental issues this unusual thing that only happens to "special" people, rather than something that may very well be part of the human condition and should be dealt with collectively. Also the issue that getting well seems "odd" in that people get suspicious when a previously ill person gets well and thinks they were never ill. > She became an evangelical Christian because those were the only people on campus who were actually nice to her. Oh my, I can so relate to this... Religion likely used to serve as mental health for many people for a long time, all its issues notwithstanding, but when we did away with it in the secular world, we just replaced it with cold callousness and nihilism, it seems.
- mhalle 10y ago
  One long term solution to this problem could be the normalization of preventative mental health treatment, analogous to a yearly "physical" doctor's visit. Many mental health issues are (at least in part) a result of reactions to events in everyday life. Sometimes they happen suddenly, or are exacerbated by a biological condition, but in the general population they often exist over time and never rise to a level that requires intervention on their own. If we could catch potential problems at this early phase, we might be able to address some number of serious issues before they become emergent. Imagine if insurance covered a yearly mental health checkup. If such a service were available, commonplace, cheap, and considered part of preventative care, we might start to destigmatize mental health care and treatment, addressing little problems early while flagging more serious ones. People who go to their "physical" general practitioner every year aren't usually considered "sick" by their friends. It would take time, of course. Physical or mental, when the machine's broken you do something to get it fixed. There should never be shame in that. Perhaps we should also do more preventive maintenance.
  - hiddencost 10y ago
    I think the point of this article is kinda "we should be caring for people in our communities" rather than "we should treat mental health as strictly a problem for specialists".
anjc 10y ago
> The mantra taught to young people today is “If you’re having trouble, get professional help.” This is the same thing you often hear in my country. You're always told to seek help, but talking to professionals is almost entirely useless due to some sort of total societal inhibition. As in, the media and lobby groups will push a message that "we all find it hard to talk about mental health, so if you have an issue, go to a pro"....but it seems like pros find it just as hard. They almost definitely will not prescribe medicine, public waiting lists for therapists are long, the private costs for professionals with medical qualifications are prohibitive, and people can call themselves counsellors with almost no qualifications leading to a poor array of options. Unless you're afflicted to the point that you've already committed a crime, you're probably not going to get much satisfaction from doctors.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

140 points by devinhelton 10y ago

I grew up with major depression and a major mood disorder. My doctor thought I was autistic but when she gave me an IQ test I was high functioning and in 1975 they didn't discover high functioning autism until later in the 1990s. So I was diagnosed(misdiagnosed) as depressed. I was picked on by bullies, physical, mental, emotional abuse, etc. Just because I was different in some way, called an Oddball because of X or Y, that is something the other kids didn't have. I managed to graduate high school and college and was working a good job until I developed schizoaffective disorder in 2001. It is like bipolar with schizophrenic cycles. Less than 0.5% of the population suffers from it and it is very rare so not everyone knows about it. In 2003 I ended up on disability as I could not find a job, and could not hide that I was mentally ill. ADA says one cannot be discriminated against because of a mental disability or mental illness, but I was called overqualified or any other reason to reject me. As I grew older I also have age discrimination. I wish I can say it gets better, but it is like fighting with demons in your head to keep the negative thoughts away. The thought that say you are worthless, or that you will fail, nobody likes you anymore, you are past your prime, etc. The medicine helps treat a chemical imbalance but not all mental illnesses are due to chemical imbalances. Getting a good doctor is hard as well. I'm 48 and have been suicidal about 14 times in my life. I'm still alive to talk about it, so I survived somehow. Generation-X is called the suicide generation because of so many of my generation killing themselves or getting suicidal. It is like life is so hard to live, you are on expert mode and struggling just to wake up in the morning and get ready for work, and by the time you get to work you used up most if not all of your mental energy to get up and get ready. http://boingboing.net/2016/12/11/insiders-americas-largest-c.html http://boingboing.net/2016/12/11/insiders-americas-largest-c... Mental Hospitals as shown in that above link, are not always for helping mentally ill people and some are run like prisons and they keep you there until your insurance runs out to maximize their profits. A mental illness is an invisible disability, when companies think of disabled people, they think of someone in a wheel chair, a deaf person, a blind person, someone missing body parts, etc. They never consider a mentally ill person or accommodating them. If the stress is too much and it is making you sick, other employees will do things to you to see how angry they can make you. Just because you can't smile due to flat effect paralyzing your face muscles, some employees think you might be up to something because you have a 'poker face' and didn't wave back to them when you walked in during the morning because you are too busy fighting demons in your head to see people wave at you. There is no cure, no magic, it does not go away, you just try to learn skills to cope with it and find ways to screen out negative thoughts and maybe try a different medicine and see if it works better. I am not 100% recovered, but I am making progress and trying to get back into programming. I am writing this to let people know that there is no magic bullet to kill the mental illnesses, and that we are not all violent like those public shooters they call mentally ill but they are sociopaths and most of us are not, we are just dysfunctional in some way.

virmundi 10y ago
This is why I don't seek professional help. In the US we treat depression as a clinical disease, but more a massive weakness. If you get diagnosed, it's hard to keep living a normal life. The State comes in and never leaves. You can never get back to normal. They will say your depression is in regression. I know how you feel. I'd rather preserve my right to kill myself than have it medicated, occasionally by force, by the State.
- tptacek 10y ago
  I have a number of friends with serious, diagnosed mental health issues, and it has not been my experience with any of them that the State has come in at all, let alone refused to leave. What in your experience suggests otherwise?
  - virmundi 10y ago
    If you have a registered firearm some jurisdictions will demand the weapon. If you refuse, you get Baker Act'ed. Once they take the firearm, they hold it because they do not view a depressive as mentally fit, ever, for it. You can also go on a registry of mentally defects which prevent you from purchasing another firearm. Some employers covertly access the same list making it hard to get gainful employment in more sensitive tech areas.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      I'm sorry, what list are you referring to, that tech employers consult to discriminate against people with health problems?
      - virmundi 10y ago
        They can run background checks which include mental illness. That same gun report can be run by non-sellers. http://everytown.org/press/new-fbi-data-shows-mental-health-records-in-background-check-system-tripled-since-release-of-fatal-gaps-report-pressed-states-to-submit-records-of-prohibited-gun-purchasers/ http://everytown.org/press/new-fbi-data-shows-mental-health-...

nether 10y ago

> They are teaching kids not to be kind to sad friends, but to report them to the authorities instead. I've heard that this is a particularly American attitude, that the mentally ill should be isolated with a clinician before doing anything else in life. Can any non-Americans say what their cultural attitude is? I've also heard that Indian culture is pretty much the opposite in this respect.

Swizec 10y ago
Where I'm from the attitude is mostly "If you have time for this, it must mean you don't have real problems in life. Ain't nobody got time for mental health when shit hits the fan and there are hungry mouths to feed" I like the "don't be a victim" attitude, but it's a very trial by fire kind of thing. We have one of the highest suicide rates in europe. Both the general attitude and the suicide rate have been improving in the recent decade or two. Emphasis is on therapy rather than pharmaceuticals.
zaptheimpaler 10y ago
I am an Indian immigrant living in America. I think what you said is very true. There is even more stigma about "mental health" issues in India so we might not label many things as mental issues, but people are generally more supportive and social, even a little intrusive into others lives. When a friend is having issues, their social group will actively try to get them to socialize, talk about stuff and cheer them up. They will insist that you don't go under the radar and disappear. The American attitude of extreme individuality, personal limits seems kind of ridiculous to me at times. Like I don't even understand what the hell a friend is supposed to be if you can't be honest with them when you're down. Someone to share some good times with is a fair-weather friend, but not at all the same thing as a genuine friend. Sometimes it feels like you have to constantly live with a mask on, even with friends and family. And then when you get lonely and tired of the mask, you are supposed to find a soulmate who will be the sole person you are allowed to be honest and seek help from.. sometimes its not enough. You know a major component in many mental illnesses is letting people isolate themselves. And mental illnesses have been around forever, but they were dealt with by help from society around you. This is an innate, human thing. There is an epidemic of loneliness and isolation in western societies because of the extreme individualism everywhere. Finally, its fucking ridiculous the amount of trust people have in "authorities". "No we won't talk to you about your mental issues because fuck you, but hey why don't you go pay to talk to a stranger instead"? What? Why is that better? Isn't a friend/family member much better positioned to understand your problems and offer some perspective? Of course, the Indian way has some problems too. One, a shit-ton of stigma and judgement by broader society if they find out. And at some point you're supposed to just "man up and get your shit together". And mental health doctors are still not trusted at all. Although, given the recent state of psych studies and the replication failures, they might just be right. /rant Sorry this is a little hostile.. I obviously don't have a full picture of everything, this is just my biased but honest opinion.

devoply 10y ago

I personally think that mental illness is the rule and not the exception for human beings. It's just functioning mental illness which is validated vs. dysfunctional mental illness which is not validated. Most people, if not every single person, is mentally ill in some way. It's just when they start being dysfunctional that we call it out as mental illness and then they have to do a whole ritual to try to get rid of it or figure out ways to diminish its effects on the person. And often it's the environment that makes people mentally ill. It's not even the person. So how can you treat the effect without changing the cause? You can't. Dave Chapelle here is talking about mental illness caused by Hollywood, he says calling someone mentally ill is dismissive, it's not the people ... but the environment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRzqsfO8F4U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRzqsfO8F4U

aaron-lebo 10y ago
I believe you are absolutely right. We all believe delusional things. Right now you more than likely have multiple if not many beliefs that are not rooted in reality. Even the smartest people have these. Society validates some illnesses or disorders and shuns other (sometimes for good reason). We often see success in and of itself as a validation, when people can become successful in spite of flawed thinking or behavior. Society can breed mental illness and it might be doing that right now.
Broken_Hippo 10y ago
"It's just functioning mental illness which is validated vs dysrunctional mental illness which is not validated" To be fair, this is the very thing that makes mental illness ... mental illness. It isn't that normal folks don't have some abnormalities and illnesses, but the fact that it affects their lives and prevents, to some extent, them taking part in a normal life. Sometimes it plagues folks. In a way, it is kind of like blood pressure. Everyone has blood pressure, some higher than others. A few people that run a little high don't need to do anything. Some people take meds, and some do diet and exercise and such things. This all depends on what their blood pressure responds to and what the cause is - some folks get it genetically, others through diet and lack of exercise. Edit: It is an easy example only, not trying to minimize mental health issues.

justindocanto 10y ago

I agree that it's more productive to advise students to be wary than to express outrage at an institution. This should be read by all incoming college freshmen.

projektir 10y ago

Wow, this article describes all the things I've been thinking about for a very long time, and how hard it is to properly talk to someone about anything because any discussion just goes to "everyone should see a professional and we can't talk to people". We made mental issues this unusual thing that only happens to "special" people, rather than something that may very well be part of the human condition and should be dealt with collectively. Also the issue that getting well seems "odd" in that people get suspicious when a previously ill person gets well and thinks they were never ill. > She became an evangelical Christian because those were the only people on campus who were actually nice to her. Oh my, I can so relate to this... Religion likely used to serve as mental health for many people for a long time, all its issues notwithstanding, but when we did away with it in the secular world, we just replaced it with cold callousness and nihilism, it seems.

mhalle 10y ago
One long term solution to this problem could be the normalization of preventative mental health treatment, analogous to a yearly "physical" doctor's visit. Many mental health issues are (at least in part) a result of reactions to events in everyday life. Sometimes they happen suddenly, or are exacerbated by a biological condition, but in the general population they often exist over time and never rise to a level that requires intervention on their own. If we could catch potential problems at this early phase, we might be able to address some number of serious issues before they become emergent. Imagine if insurance covered a yearly mental health checkup. If such a service were available, commonplace, cheap, and considered part of preventative care, we might start to destigmatize mental health care and treatment, addressing little problems early while flagging more serious ones. People who go to their "physical" general practitioner every year aren't usually considered "sick" by their friends. It would take time, of course. Physical or mental, when the machine's broken you do something to get it fixed. There should never be shame in that. Perhaps we should also do more preventive maintenance.
- hiddencost 10y ago
  I think the point of this article is kinda "we should be caring for people in our communities" rather than "we should treat mental health as strictly a problem for specialists".

anjc 10y ago

> The mantra taught to young people today is “If you’re having trouble, get professional help.” This is the same thing you often hear in my country. You're always told to seek help, but talking to professionals is almost entirely useless due to some sort of total societal inhibition. As in, the media and lobby groups will push a message that "we all find it hard to talk about mental health, so if you have an issue, go to a pro"....but it seems like pros find it just as hard. They almost definitely will not prescribe medicine, public waiting lists for therapists are long, the private costs for professionals with medical qualifications are prohibitive, and people can call themselves counsellors with almost no qualifications leading to a poor array of options. Unless you're afflicted to the point that you've already committed a crime, you're probably not going to get much satisfaction from doctors.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]