12 ms·
Pharma Execs Arrested Over Fentanyl Rackateering
- Graham24 10y agoThere was an article in the Observer about this the other day. https://www.theguardian.com/global/2016/dec/11/pills-that-kill-why-are-thousands-dying-from-fentanyl-abuse- https://www.theguardian.com/global/2016/dec/11/pills-that-ki...
- rblatz 10y agoInterestingly Insys donated $500k against the marijuana legalization measure (prop 205) on the ballot in Arizona. http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/ej-montini/2016/09/12/montini-proposition-205-fentanyl-legal-marijuana/90251526/ http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/ej-montini/2016...
- russdill 10y agoI don't know if he's responsible for the commercials that aired, but they were incredibly embarrassing. I suppose they can be quite effective against an uneducated electorate.
- verbify 10y agoWhenever I hear something like that (e.g. the alcohol industry donated to anti-cannabis legislation, or your example above), it makes me wonder what they're thought process is. Let us assume it profit motivated, and they've calculated their potential losses as a result of legalization (let's call it pl for potential lossses), they've calculated the probability of it passing without a $500k donation (let's call it pnd or probability no donation) and the probability of it passing with a $500k donation (pwd for probablity with donation). Then, they can make the following calculation: If pl x pwd - pl x pnd > $500k then the $500k is money well spent. Otherwise it's a poor bet. This leads to interesting conclusions: * Proposition 205 was close (51%-49%). So it seems likely small events could swing it * $500k is in context of a $3m campaign, so it seems again likely that their donation had an impact. But compare it to the 1 billion spent on the general election, and how many more people would be turning out because of the general election, it seems less likely it had an impact * I have no way of knowing what their potential losses are from legalisation, but let's assume they're high. Let's say the difference between pwd and pnd is a 2.5% chance that their donation swung the election (which seems overly generous, elections usually aren't that easy to swing). That means they are assuming losses of approximately 20 million in Arizona from legalisation. Generally though, I'm not convinced they made this analysis, and instead were trying to demonstrate that they were opposed.
- berntb 10y agoYou need to add to the calculation that if a few states changes, there will be a momentum for more to change. (That said, for drugs I only use Dark Souls, coffee and a few beers now and then. Maybe a glass of wine sometimes, mostly because I am swayed by the health propganda.)
- raverbashing 10y agoBean counters now just need to learn how to factor karma in their calculations
- drvdevd 10y agoYes. The scale of the irony here is "smack you in the face" level, whatever reason Insys had for donating.
- barkingcat 10y agoYou're forgetting the need to position themselves as the "good" drug of choice for getting altered. Good marketing.
- cowsandmilk 10y agoThe press liked to push the point that Insys made a fentanyl-based drug, but I believe it has far more to do with Insys's efforts at making marijuana-based drugs[1][2]. If marijuana became widely available, their efforts at marijuana-based prescription drugs would likely have a smaller market. [1] http://syndros.com/ http://syndros.com/ [2] Cannabidiol in development http://www.insysrx.com/products/in-development http://www.insysrx.com/products/in-development
- jsjohnst 10y agoI'm glad they put an end to this, but man, I can't help but think there's a serious problem with our government based on how many agencies were involved to do it.
- matt4077 10y agoIt appears that most of these agencies were involved in a role closer to that of a witness than an investigator. These are government agencies that provide healthcare benefits, so they were paying for the prescriptions and therefore victims of this fraudulent scheme. There were probably dozens of private employers and/or insurance companies involved in similar roles, but they're not listed in this press release.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- trhway 10y agoi wish it were a prosecution for real crimes, yet so far reading it it looks like a typical way prescription drugs are pushed in the US, and the prosecution here may be just a scapegoating of those typical pharma-pushers just because of all the high attention the fentanyl abuse got recently, and thus government has to show action and Ortiz jumped at the chance to look good.
- paulajohnson 10y ago"In this country we find it pays to hang an admiral from time to time, to encourage the others".
- matt4077 10y agoIf "In exchange for bribes and kickbacks..." is "a typical way prescription drugs are pushed" then I'm happy that "Ortiz jumped at the chance to look good" and hope others take her lead. Just because something is common doesn't mean it's legal.
- trhway 10y ago(IANAL) it is my understanding that kickbacks from drug companies to doctors are pretty legal in US - or there is a very technical line between legal and illegal kickback in pharma/doctor relationship that regular people like us don't recognize it. And don't get me wrong, i'm not against sending a bunch of pharma execs to a country club - i just think that so few of them are sent there that situation looks more like politically motivated selective enforcement of the law than full fledged justice.
- danso 10y agoIt is OK for doctors to have financial relationships with companies, for example, to be a paid speaker or consultant. But I don't think those are "kickbacks", and there's a distinction between those relationships and what the Justice Dept. is prosecuting here https://projects.propublica.org/docdollars/ https://projects.propublica.org/docdollars/
- Hondor 10y ago“Causing the unnecessary use of opioids by current and retired U.S. military service members shows disregard for their health and disrespect for their service to our country,” Why does any problem affecting veterans become disrespecting their service? Maybe they're just an easy target more likely to get addicted to painkillers than normal people.
- noir_lord 10y agoBecause the US has a weird fetishistic thing going with their vets, all that "fighting for our freedom" when you are the biggest richest and most heavily armed country on the planet your freedom (from external threats) was never under doubt. A lot of it I think is an over reaction to the way returning troops from vietnam where treated. In either case, strong reverence for the military is one of the criteria for a fascist state. EDIT: http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm Since someone called what I said inflammatory I posted where I read the military reverence thing.
- grzm 10y ago… the US has a weird fetishistic thing going with their vets … In either case, strong reverence for the military is one of the criteria for a fascist state. Please don't introduce inflammatory language like this unnecessarily into a thread. It's quite off-topic for the submission. Edited to expand and clarify.
- mindcrime 10y agoThat's not "inflammatory language", it's just a well known fact.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- noir_lord 10y agohttp://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm Nothing inflammatory about pointing out something a respected academic said. If you think its inflammatory read the full list and compare it to contemporary democratic states.
- paulajohnson 10y agoIt will be interesting to see how the plea bargains come out. There won't be a trial of course.
- _steve_ 10y agoWhen opiates are killing more people then guns in America as they did over the last 12 months, there is a very serious problem at hand. Good to see reason prevailing, assuming the charges stock and they do hard time
- paulajohnson 10y agoThe way it generally seems to play out in the USA, especially for white collar defendents who can afford plenty of lawyers, is something like this. They are charged with crimes that carry a decade or two in prison, but are then offered a plea bargain. Going to trial is risky for both sides: conviction means a decade or two in prison, but acquittal is very public egg on the face of the lead prosecutor. In a case like this it mostly depends on who the jury feel sorrier for; the hard-working family men who overstepped an obscure rule, or the unfortunate addicts who were suckered into it by a bunch of unscrupulous bastards. So a plea deal is very likely, which means a sentence of under a year, quite possibly suspended, and a stonking big fine to the company (which hits the shareholders rather than the managers who made the decisions).
- Animats 10y agoThis was a story last year.[1] At that time, the Insys CEO, John Kapoor, was prominently mentioned. But he's not in the group arrested. [1] http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/04/the-deadly-drug-appeal-of-insys-pharmaceuticals.html http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/04/the-deadly-drug-appeal-of-ins...
- wu-ikkyu 10y agoMaybe he made a deal with the authorities to testify or provide evidence?
- wallace_f 10y agoUse of the word racketeering here is interesting. Wikipedia's definition is: > A racket is a service that is fraudulently offered to solve a problem, such as for a problem that does not actually exist, that will not be put into effect, or that would not otherwise exist if the racket did not exist But it sounds like they were engaging in illegal bribing, not racketeering. I don't know, am I misunderstanding?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- azernik 10y agoRacketeering here refers to a specific law - specifically, RICO (Racketeering Influenced Criminal Organization). This was built to deal with mafia groups in the 70s, but explicitly written to include white-collar crime. RICO basically created a special class of crime to cover the commission of multiple less serious crimes in pursuit of an "enterprise", i.e. an organized criminal conspiracy. So when the Justice Department says racketeering, and then mentions RICO farther down in the press release, it means that these are basically conspiracy charges that include a few different items on a list of thirty-something crimes that RICO includes.
- wallace_f 10y agoThanks for the info
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- partycoder 10y agoWell, this has been going on for decades in the case of opioids, resulting in a national catastrophe, and no one has been arrested yet.
- paulajohnson 10y agoActually there have been a lot of arrests, but so far they have been of the doctors and staff prescribing the pills, rather than the Mr Bigs. Google "pill mill arrests" for examples.
- partycoder 10y agoYes, but at a macro level it has been just a slap on the wrist.
- another_account 10y agoBack when i was in active addiction to heroin I knew that the brief time i spent messing with fent was the end of the road. The step past speedballs. At that point I wanted to, and was actively trying to, die. I understood its power. To push this onto an unknowing general public is, imo, evil. These people should be sentenced like Heroin importers. Fent withdrawals, whilst short, are unadulterated hell. I have never felt a combination of physical, mental and spiritual pain like it and i have been through spinal fussion in my youth. The type of pain that changes a person for life.
- baldfat 10y agoThey should be charged with at the least institutional and organized manslaughter. My area had 24 over dose deaths in one weekend due to fentinal in the heroin just this year.
- Diederich 10y agoI agree. Can you define what an 'area' is for you? Thanks.
- codyb 10y agoProbably a county or metropolitan area, this stuff has been happening all over the nation as of late in pretty drastic rates.
- Diederich 10y agoThat's my guess as well. I am seeking to at least somewhat contextualize the probability.
- baldfat 10y agoI live in a city of 120,000 and so my area is the metropolitan area which includes the suburbs. I think more drugs are consumed in the suburbs then in cities contrary to popular belief. Drugs cost money and there is certainly more money in the suburbs then in most rust belt cities. https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/heroin/scope-heroin-use-in-united-states https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/hero...
- londons_explore 10y agoWait - I thought all US healthcare was done on the basis of kickbacks, perks, benefits, and free lunches from drug salesmen to physicians? How is this any different?
- cmdrfred 10y agoSomebody must of forgot to kick up the vig.
- 7sigma 10y agoNot really related, but I noticed the name of the prosecuting attorney: Carmen M. Ortiz. She's the one who prosecuted Aaron Swartz IIRC
- Fnoord 10y agoYou are right. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen_Ortiz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen_Ortiz
- finid 10y agoShe's being "tough on crime". It's a pubic prosecutors step to public office.
- rwmurrayVT 10y agoReading the Wikipedia article about this woman is a bit infuriating. I can see why she's considered to be overzealous.
- ianhawes 10y agoShe also prosecuted the Boston Marathon bombing suspect and moments after he was apprehended, held an impromptu press conference where she declared that he would not be read his Miranda rights because he was a "public safety threat" [0]. [0] http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/23/dzhokhar-tsarnaev-interrogated-without-miranda-warning-for-more-than-two-days.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/23/dzhokhar-ts...
- Ericson2314 10y agoOh boy here comes the congestive dissonance
- athenot 10y agoI know HN is not the place for 1-line witty quips but congestive dissonance made me laugh out loud. Thanks for the laughter! Back to the topic, real life is complex. The same person fighting against us on one issue can be working with us on another one. The "good guys/bad guys" narrative is deeply anchored in our storytelling arts but it's also a gross caricature of reality. In the business realm, consider Apple and Samsung who both collaborate on projects and actively sue each other.
- sfifs 10y agoSome of these execs are being charged under RICO. That's going to be brutal. I was under the impression Prosecutors generally avoid RICO due to higher burden of proof. I guess this sets an example for the Pharma industry to watch out.
- epistasis 10y agoIt seems that laws around healthcare actually have teeth as they should. Criminals in this industry actually go to jail and are punished, unlike, say, the financial industry. Clearly the pharma lobby hasn't had as much success in detoothing law enforcement.
- finid 10y agoThe medication, called “Subsys,” is a powerful narcotic intended to treat cancer patients suffering intense episodes of breakthrough pain. In exchange for bribes and kickbacks, the practitioners wrote large numbers of prescriptions for the patients, most of whom were not diagnosed with cancer. Nowhere in that article did I read anything about arresting/charging the "practitioners" who actually wrote those prescriptions, or did I miss it?
- devilsAdvocaat 10y agoJust to be contrarian: Innocent until proven guilty.
- mikeyouse 10y agoRight, that works for the justice system. Fortunately, we are humans with free will and cognitive ability to make our own judgements. When the company's entire senior leadership team is caught bribing physicians, many of whom were themselves arrested[1] for over-prescribing the drug in question, and is caught defrauding insurance companies to push their drugs --- We can wholeheartedly believe they are guilty. I wouldn't want them to go to prison until they have a trial by jury, but I don't have to give them the benefit of the doubt. [1] - https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/28/business/drug-maker-gave-large-payments-to-doctors-with-troubled-track-records.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/28/business/drug-maker-gave-...
- dacox 10y agoWow. I realize this is about prescription Fentanyl, but my area (Vancouver BC) is getting hit really, really hard by this drug. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/b-c-declares-public-health-emergency-after-fentanyl-overdoses-kill-200-people-in-three-months http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/b-c-declares-public... It seems to have made it's way into a variety of drugs, not just heroin, so the demographic of those affected by the deaths has shifted from "junkie" to "recreational user".