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GraphQL works really well for some edge cases, and those edge cases will be more evident if you're FaceBook. For smaller projects, the benefits of integrating G

by jeswin 10y ago

GraphQL works really well for some edge cases, and those edge cases will be more evident if you're FaceBook. For smaller projects, the benefits of integrating GraphQL libraries on the client and the server v/s special handling for a limited set of APIs is not obvious. By special handling, I meant: https://example.com/friends?fields=name,pic,posts&posts_len=10 The vast majority of APIs will not require this kind of result-shaping. And for those that do, passing comma separated fields (using a protocol teams already understand) is worth trying before adopting something more drastic. Of course, YMMV.

chacham15 10y ago
Often what gets lost in these kinds of discussions is the difference between what is theoretical and what is practical. Yes, you can have a perfectly designed REST API which has all of these features. What happens, though, when you want a new piece of data? Do you redesign the API to fit this new piece of information into it or do you make a new endpoint? What if the new piece of data doesnt actually belong with `friends` but if you do the fetch for friends and this new piece of data at the same time you can get a performance boost? Do you make a new endpoint `friendsandfamily`? Now, what if you want to migrate all calls over to that endpoint, you now need to figure out if any of your frontend code or legacy systems are still using that old endpoint before you remove it. The maintenance of that system is much higher because you've conflated what data you want with how you want to get it.
- riffraff 10y ago
  how is this solved by GraphQL though? You still need to add a new edge `friendsandfamily` (same as adding to a new endpoint) or add a new a field to the existing object (same as adding a new field to the existing endpoint). What am I missing?
  - paulddraper 10y ago
    (1) GraphQL returns only what the client asks for. No need to worry that adding to an existing resource will increase response times or bloat the response for existing queries. (2) If you decide to go the friendsandfamily route, you'll just be adding `family`. You won't have `friends` endpoint and `family` endpoint and `friendsandfamily` endpoint. A GraphQL schema doesn't increase combinatorially in size; rather the possible compositions increase combinatorially.
    - riffraff 10y ago
      for 2) isn't this the same as adding an optional "include=family" to the existing friends endpoint? This is what the JSONAPI spec suggest too.
      - paulddraper 10y ago
        Yep. You can use query parameters to fix 1) and 2). Go down the rabbit hole a little bit further, and you have GraphQL (if you're lucky....if not, you'll just have a mess).
StreamBright 10y ago
Even when it does require result shaping you can just use a non-standard-REST POST request where the requested information is in the HTTP body. Implementing GraphQL on the server side seems like a lot of effort for no immediate gains. I am pretty sure it works very well for Netflix and Facebook though.
krschultz 10y ago
I gave a talk about this recently [1]. One of the subtle points of why GraphQL has the potential to be more productive for smaller teams & projects is because it is well specified. Standards are a bit constraining, but they're also enabling. There are already some nice tools built on top of GraphQL and more will come as the project matures. This is of course the same value proposition as Swagger, JSON-API, and other formalizations of REST. In my opinion those projects are likely more mature today - especially for native mobile apps. But in a few years? I suspect GraphQL will be more productive even for small teams. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0uJHI7GjIc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0uJHI7GjIc

by jeswin 10y ago

chacham15 10y ago

Often what gets lost in these kinds of discussions is the difference between what is theoretical and what is practical. Yes, you can have a perfectly designed REST API which has all of these features. What happens, though, when you want a new piece of data? Do you redesign the API to fit this new piece of information into it or do you make a new endpoint? What if the new piece of data doesnt actually belong with `friends` but if you do the fetch for friends and this new piece of data at the same time you can get a performance boost? Do you make a new endpoint `friendsandfamily`? Now, what if you want to migrate all calls over to that endpoint, you now need to figure out if any of your frontend code or legacy systems are still using that old endpoint before you remove it. The maintenance of that system is much higher because you've conflated what data you want with how you want to get it.

riffraff 10y ago
how is this solved by GraphQL though? You still need to add a new edge `friendsandfamily` (same as adding to a new endpoint) or add a new a field to the existing object (same as adding a new field to the existing endpoint). What am I missing?
- paulddraper 10y ago
  (1) GraphQL returns only what the client asks for. No need to worry that adding to an existing resource will increase response times or bloat the response for existing queries. (2) If you decide to go the friendsandfamily route, you'll just be adding `family`. You won't have `friends` endpoint and `family` endpoint and `friendsandfamily` endpoint. A GraphQL schema doesn't increase combinatorially in size; rather the possible compositions increase combinatorially.
  - riffraff 10y ago
    for 2) isn't this the same as adding an optional "include=family" to the existing friends endpoint? This is what the JSONAPI spec suggest too.
    - paulddraper 10y ago
      Yep. You can use query parameters to fix 1) and 2). Go down the rabbit hole a little bit further, and you have GraphQL (if you're lucky....if not, you'll just have a mess).

StreamBright 10y ago

Even when it does require result shaping you can just use a non-standard-REST POST request where the requested information is in the HTTP body. Implementing GraphQL on the server side seems like a lot of effort for no immediate gains. I am pretty sure it works very well for Netflix and Facebook though.

krschultz 10y ago

I gave a talk about this recently [1]. One of the subtle points of why GraphQL has the potential to be more productive for smaller teams & projects is because it is well specified. Standards are a bit constraining, but they're also enabling. There are already some nice tools built on top of GraphQL and more will come as the project matures. This is of course the same value proposition as Swagger, JSON-API, and other formalizations of REST. In my opinion those projects are likely more mature today - especially for native mobile apps. But in a few years? I suspect GraphQL will be more productive even for small teams. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0uJHI7GjIc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0uJHI7GjIc