7 ms·

I am 100% owner of an internet company making 7 figure profits annually. I am extremely secretive of my business, almost to the point that some would consider a

I am 100% owner of an internet company making 7 figure profits annually. I am extremely secretive of my business, almost to the point that some would consider a pathology. However, I will divulge my hiring strategy, because even if everyone uses my method, there will still be many employees for me to choose from. I look to hire people who just need a job. People who are qualified, but not overly qualified. People I know will depend on the job for a long time, but not looking to make it their lives. Hard workers - getting there on time, but also leaving at the stroke of 5. Ivy league schools are a red flag. Huge resumes are a red flag. These people will constantly question whether every decision is optimal, prod incessantly at company strategy, continuously try to impress, and are always hungry for praise, recognition, and "interesting work." When they get bored after 6 months, they quit and go somewhere else (remember they can easily do so because of their pedigrees), often to a competitor, bringing company secrets with them. I need someone loyal, who knows how to take orders without question, and is prepared to do the work that needs to be done day in and day out because they want the paycheck. Reading the above, you might think I'm a terribly demanding boss, but using this hiring strategy has produced a 100% employee retention rate and by all accounts we are all quite happy.

doingmyting 10y ago
I'm guessing druglord. Not too bright, takes orders without question. Fits the bill. How do you incorporate tech into that though. CRM?
beachstartup 10y ago
here, i'll paraphrase for you, since i'm a "real world" hiring manager as well, with a business that i keep anonymous/secretive on hn. "a reliable person who can actually, really, like, totally for real drive a problem to resolution and then go spend time with family. if there's an emergency, they pick up their phone and try to help." this is a small percentage of the population, but big enough. it's why we (based in california) have a 75% remote workforce. hint: we still pay california $. that's how you retain talent. everyone on my team lives in huge houses and i live in an apartment. you'd (well maybe not you, but you know what i mean) be surprised at the number of super-intelligent ("smart") people who can't solve problems when the pressure is on.
- throwaway95837 10y ago
  I used to be surprised but after witnessing this many times it doesn't surprise me anymore.
- TheMissingPiece 10y ago
  Not surprised at all. I wish more people would emphasize at least _working_ on social skills or real-world problem solving. We would all benefit from this.
- tomne 10y ago
  That pitch is great, if rarely seen. My job entails emergencies from time to time, and it's rewarding to solve an issue at the customer, before it gets out of hand, while still solving problem on the long-term roadmap during the day. What I do regret is the complete lack of remote, meaning I will pretty much leave this job soon, as my fiancée is currently living on the other side of the planet. It's great to see companies that do care for employees well-being in other ways than office perks, and I'd love to see more of that in the future. Are you still looking for applicants?
  - beachstartup 10y ago
    > Are you still looking for applicants? i don't recruit on hn. i will say this though: most people like you, if given the opportunity to work for a smaller, unknown firm for less money remotely, and a larger well known 'famous' firm for more money on-site, they will usually choose the latter even if they really want to work remotely. in other words, "i want to work remotely" usually really means, "i wish i had all the upsides of BigCo with none of the downsides."
    - tomne 10y ago
      > I don't recruit on hn. I can't blame you on that one. Still, I want to address something. Remote work is a different paradigm, it doesn't make a lot of sense to compare the two of them. The upsides are pretty different, and so are the downsides. I'm sure some people do not realise it requires a wildly different skill set, as well as a different mindset, to work remotely. The first thing that comes to mind is communication, the next is processes, and that's not the end of the list. I'd take the job getting me closer to my loved ones any day over a job at BigCo personally, especially considering I feel strongly about the upsides. To each his own, I guess.
tossaway1 10y ago
The question was what tech skills will you be hiring for and your answer was essentially I just want a plodder who's not overly smart and won't question my authority. Sound about right?
- throwaway95837 10y ago
  Tech skills are only one dimension of a multidimensional process that employers like me use to make decisions. I am here to offer contrarian advice that might be helpful to someone early in his career who might be a great programmer but may also be dismayed because he thinks the only path to a successful tech career is devoting your life to your job or going to an ivy league school and I am here to say that is not the case.
  - mattschmulen 10y ago
    I don't understand why (forgive me for the generalization) blue collar work ethic and blue collar loyalty are so often dismissed in the tech field. Some of the best advice I ever received was 'execute in the seat your in'. Sure there are higher order strategies to work out but grow into it and growth is around growing into the company, not just growing into your specific vertical profession. Kudos on your directness.
    - bleachedsleet 10y ago
      A few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: 1) Anything that can be effectively described as "blue collar" will probably be replaced by automation within 3-10 years depending on the job. 2) Creative thinkers should be valued more highly in the tech field than those that can just follow orders blindly. Very few tech fields emulate an assembly line and the ability to think for yourself and develop an alternative solution is and should be highly valued. 3) Most people in the tech field, both employees and employers, are probably intellectual to a degree and free thinkers in and of themselves. So the cycle continues. I'd also like to point out that this idea of a blue collar work ethic is somewhat flawed. There is not specific work ethic associated with the blue collar worker naturally; it's just a result of never having enough money for pleasure, so work becomes a part of the routine. The job doesn't matter as much when you're dirt poor as long as it's making money, and the risk of job loss is what you're describing as loyalty. This is really nothing more than a capitalist machine at its worst, not some utopic worker's attitude we should all aspire to.
antisthenes 10y ago
Where are you based? Sounds like the type of company I would like to work for, because you figured out the almost lost art of vis-à-vis loyalty.
- throwaway95837 10y ago
  I am based in new york but not currently hiring
che_shirecat 10y ago
this post reeks of wishful thinking and general bullsh*t. "100% owner", "7 figures", "100% retention rate" - some really lazy hyperbole...
- lscore720 10y ago
  I laughed, I'm pretty sure it's satire. Right?
- throwaway95837 10y ago
  If only I had taken the advice in life I dismissed so quickly out of disbelief, just like you're doing now, I'd be where I am so much faster.
  - mk4p 10y ago
    Advice such as?
- mahyarm 10y ago
  It's possible to have a %100 rate when you haven't been around long. 100% owner also means they bootstrapped and were a solo founder.
- logicallee 10y ago
  I and others read his post carefully and agree with it/believe it. The 100% retention rate obviously just means he isn't seeing churn - if he doesn't do anything he won't have to fill the seats that are filled today on his team in four months due to churn. It's obvious that that part wasn't literal: he told us of the experience of employees leaving (to go to competitors, and taking his trade secrets / competitive advantage with them - and that the people who did so had superlative/"ivy league" credentials.) nothing wrong with his post. By the way 7 figures covers everything from 1,000,000 to 9,000,000 - so I read it as being barely seven figures in profit, or I would accept if the actual bottom line profit were 700k-1M (so that it's a bit of an exaggeration to call it all "profit"). However the top line (sales) has to be (well) over 1m or I am unhappy/consider it too much embellishment. OP - what does the top line look like? Roughly how many employees do you have?
lj3 10y ago
This sounds like the kind of job I'm looking for. The problem is, my resume is filled with those red flags of yours because I used to be that guy with the huge resume who was hungry for "interesting work". Now I'm just a senior dev looking for a steady paycheck away from the rat race. Any tips for how I go about communicating that to potential employers?
- theparanoid 10y ago
  A resume doesn't need to be exhaustive. It's common to leave off a J.D. when applying to non-law positions (precisely because of this).
- Retra 10y ago
  Your resume only contains what you choose to put on it.
uniclaude 10y ago
Where I live (Japan), this is the most common strategy. The best way to get a job in Japan is to tailor your resume in order to show a maximum of loyalty. Anything too far from the norm can be a red flag (like not being married). The best advice to take from your post is to make sure you know which type of company you're applying to. A small bootstrapped lifestyle business probably won't hire like a hot SV funded startup, which makes a lot of sense.
- borplk 10y ago
  Being married is the norm in Japan? I thought they had a ton of singles.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
tonyedgecombe 10y ago
When they get bored after 6 months, they quit and go somewhere else I thought you had 100% retention rate?
- rmdashrfroot 10y ago
  100% reading comprehension, great work.
- throwaway95837 10y ago
  Read carefully. "using this hiring strategy has produced a 100% employee retention rate." Those who left were hired at an earlier time when I thought hiring the top tier Ivy Leaguers was the way to go.
muratsu 10y ago
How do you solve management problems when scaling? I understand your reasoning when it comes to well defined business requirements with well defined technical problems. But once the initial set of requirements are done, how do you proceed? I suspect you need at least some amount of overachievers to fill mid-level management roles.
nkohari 10y ago
It will also create a company that can't grow past the point where you are the lynchpin. Good leaders find people that will put them out of a job, not lackeys to do whatever they say. If you're happy where you are, then I congratulate you on your success, but when was the last time you took a vacation?
- throwaway95837 10y ago
  Actually the business mostly runs itself and I usually spend only about 2 hours a week on it. The business has a healthy profit margin so I can afford to over hire and build in redundancies so that even if one person is out sick for a few days, the other person picks up the slack without me having to do anything. Unlike many other companies who overwork their employees, I try to make sure that every employee can easily finish everything by 5pm. Otherwise things build up, problems arise, things don't get done, and I'd have to step in, which I don't want to do.
mgav 10y ago
Hmmm. Your "who knows how to take orders without question" requirement (paragraph 3) would discourage every great person I've ever met, while weakening your overall enterprise (what if the Titanic's jr. officers had respectfully asked questions about going full speed at night in waters known to have icebergs?).
- UK-AL 10y ago
  I don't think he wants great people. That's the point.
  - user5994461 10y ago
    I think he wants cheap people. Everything he is looking for is hinting at cheap.
    - lj3 10y ago
      Not necessarily. He says he operates in NY, so he can't pay too cheap. Even the most loyal employee will jump ship if the competing offer is 2x what he's currently making, especially with NY cost of living. What he wants is stability. You'd be surprised how many very smart people put a premium on that sort of thing, especially when they get older.
      - user5994461 10y ago
        They won't get 2x offers if they don't have a pedigree and can't handle hard tech interviews. (Which is what he's filtering for). An employee with limited options = A more stable employee
        lj3 10y ago
        Humbly disagree. 2x offers depends on how little he's paying them to begin with vs how easy it is to switch jobs. You don't need a pedigree or be able to handle hard tech interviews to switch jobs in NYC. You just need to go on a lot of interviews. Eventually, one will say yes. NYC isn't exactly a place where you have limited options. You want limited options? Try to find a job upstate.
deskamess 10y ago
This actually seems reasonable and fair under two criteria: - Questions... people need to ask questions (but not ad nauseam). - Compensation... 'need a job' should not translate to a desperate wage Understanding and acknowledging your employees have a life after work is important. The only question I have is how, or do you give out bonuses from your yearly profits.
VLM 10y ago
Seem to be dancing around saying you preferentially hire military veterans without actually saying it. Basically you've described my serious, competent, self disciplined ex-mil and reserves/NG coworkers. Wait... do I work for you?
drrectangle 10y ago
The problem with loyalty is you can only spend it in one place. Its like a points card at a grocery store.
tbendixson 10y ago
It's funny. I have always suspected employers were looking for this sort of thing. Hence the odd glee in their voice when they hear me talk about spending my hard earned money on discretionary purchases. The more I spend, the longer I stay. Perhaps the takeaway for all of us is that we all need to be humble and at least pretend we need our jobs, even if we're aggressively saving for an early retirement.
rinchik1 10y ago
Sounds like a 50 Shades of Gray scenario...
Wheaties466 10y ago
thank you for this answer. I'm glad that this is being enforced because this is literally me 100%. Glad to see that other people are looking for someone like me.
happywolf 10y ago
I kind of agree this strategy, but do note I am not looking at being cheap. My people are paid well above market rate, the point is I need execution and work done, there is a limit on how out-of-box and creative an employee should be. One can question the technical solution or even the business model, but after a decision is made by the business owner, execution must be done instead of incessant arguing over the merits and demerits of such decision. As such, I tend to hire those who don't take oneself too seriously. The OP's redflags I feel are corollary to this observation. Be humble and get shit done.
stratigos 10y ago
This is really freaking hilarious when you look past how cruel and exploitative it is :). Your hiring strategy is not "your" hiring strategy: its every mindless, exploitative, and compassionless corporation in the universe. In otherwords, youre overwhelmingly average! Youre contributing to the very problem youre having: no one wants to work for an entity that operates like this.
williamwrites 10y ago
Do you have anything available and how do I apply?
bootload 10y ago
"hire for attitude, train for skill" [0] is the business usual, this reads more like "hire for attitude and aptitude" [1] [0] https://hbr.org/2011/02/hire-for-attitude-train-for-sk https://hbr.org/2011/02/hire-for-attitude-train-for-sk [1] https://www.eremedia.com/ere/hiring-for-both-attitude-and-aptitude/ https://www.eremedia.com/ere/hiring-for-both-attitude-and-ap...

doingmyting 10y ago

I'm guessing druglord. Not too bright, takes orders without question. Fits the bill. How do you incorporate tech into that though. CRM?

beachstartup 10y ago

here, i'll paraphrase for you, since i'm a "real world" hiring manager as well, with a business that i keep anonymous/secretive on hn. "a reliable person who can actually, really, like, totally for real drive a problem to resolution and then go spend time with family. if there's an emergency, they pick up their phone and try to help." this is a small percentage of the population, but big enough. it's why we (based in california) have a 75% remote workforce. hint: we still pay california $. that's how you retain talent. everyone on my team lives in huge houses and i live in an apartment. you'd (well maybe not you, but you know what i mean) be surprised at the number of super-intelligent ("smart") people who can't solve problems when the pressure is on.

throwaway95837 10y ago
I used to be surprised but after witnessing this many times it doesn't surprise me anymore.
TheMissingPiece 10y ago
Not surprised at all. I wish more people would emphasize at least _working_ on social skills or real-world problem solving. We would all benefit from this.
tomne 10y ago
That pitch is great, if rarely seen. My job entails emergencies from time to time, and it's rewarding to solve an issue at the customer, before it gets out of hand, while still solving problem on the long-term roadmap during the day. What I do regret is the complete lack of remote, meaning I will pretty much leave this job soon, as my fiancée is currently living on the other side of the planet. It's great to see companies that do care for employees well-being in other ways than office perks, and I'd love to see more of that in the future. Are you still looking for applicants?
- beachstartup 10y ago
  > Are you still looking for applicants? i don't recruit on hn. i will say this though: most people like you, if given the opportunity to work for a smaller, unknown firm for less money remotely, and a larger well known 'famous' firm for more money on-site, they will usually choose the latter even if they really want to work remotely. in other words, "i want to work remotely" usually really means, "i wish i had all the upsides of BigCo with none of the downsides."
  - tomne 10y ago
    > I don't recruit on hn. I can't blame you on that one. Still, I want to address something. Remote work is a different paradigm, it doesn't make a lot of sense to compare the two of them. The upsides are pretty different, and so are the downsides. I'm sure some people do not realise it requires a wildly different skill set, as well as a different mindset, to work remotely. The first thing that comes to mind is communication, the next is processes, and that's not the end of the list. I'd take the job getting me closer to my loved ones any day over a job at BigCo personally, especially considering I feel strongly about the upsides. To each his own, I guess.

tossaway1 10y ago

The question was what tech skills will you be hiring for and your answer was essentially I just want a plodder who's not overly smart and won't question my authority. Sound about right?

throwaway95837 10y ago
Tech skills are only one dimension of a multidimensional process that employers like me use to make decisions. I am here to offer contrarian advice that might be helpful to someone early in his career who might be a great programmer but may also be dismayed because he thinks the only path to a successful tech career is devoting your life to your job or going to an ivy league school and I am here to say that is not the case.
- mattschmulen 10y ago
  I don't understand why (forgive me for the generalization) blue collar work ethic and blue collar loyalty are so often dismissed in the tech field. Some of the best advice I ever received was 'execute in the seat your in'. Sure there are higher order strategies to work out but grow into it and growth is around growing into the company, not just growing into your specific vertical profession. Kudos on your directness.
  - bleachedsleet 10y ago
    A few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: 1) Anything that can be effectively described as "blue collar" will probably be replaced by automation within 3-10 years depending on the job. 2) Creative thinkers should be valued more highly in the tech field than those that can just follow orders blindly. Very few tech fields emulate an assembly line and the ability to think for yourself and develop an alternative solution is and should be highly valued. 3) Most people in the tech field, both employees and employers, are probably intellectual to a degree and free thinkers in and of themselves. So the cycle continues. I'd also like to point out that this idea of a blue collar work ethic is somewhat flawed. There is not specific work ethic associated with the blue collar worker naturally; it's just a result of never having enough money for pleasure, so work becomes a part of the routine. The job doesn't matter as much when you're dirt poor as long as it's making money, and the risk of job loss is what you're describing as loyalty. This is really nothing more than a capitalist machine at its worst, not some utopic worker's attitude we should all aspire to.

antisthenes 10y ago

Where are you based? Sounds like the type of company I would like to work for, because you figured out the almost lost art of vis-à-vis loyalty.

throwaway95837 10y ago
I am based in new york but not currently hiring

che_shirecat 10y ago

this post reeks of wishful thinking and general bullsh*t. "100% owner", "7 figures", "100% retention rate" - some really lazy hyperbole...

lscore720 10y ago
I laughed, I'm pretty sure it's satire. Right?
throwaway95837 10y ago
If only I had taken the advice in life I dismissed so quickly out of disbelief, just like you're doing now, I'd be where I am so much faster.
- mk4p 10y ago
  Advice such as?
mahyarm 10y ago
It's possible to have a %100 rate when you haven't been around long. 100% owner also means they bootstrapped and were a solo founder.
logicallee 10y ago
I and others read his post carefully and agree with it/believe it. The 100% retention rate obviously just means he isn't seeing churn - if he doesn't do anything he won't have to fill the seats that are filled today on his team in four months due to churn. It's obvious that that part wasn't literal: he told us of the experience of employees leaving (to go to competitors, and taking his trade secrets / competitive advantage with them - and that the people who did so had superlative/"ivy league" credentials.) nothing wrong with his post. By the way 7 figures covers everything from 1,000,000 to 9,000,000 - so I read it as being barely seven figures in profit, or I would accept if the actual bottom line profit were 700k-1M (so that it's a bit of an exaggeration to call it all "profit"). However the top line (sales) has to be (well) over 1m or I am unhappy/consider it too much embellishment. OP - what does the top line look like? Roughly how many employees do you have?

lj3 10y ago

This sounds like the kind of job I'm looking for. The problem is, my resume is filled with those red flags of yours because I used to be that guy with the huge resume who was hungry for "interesting work". Now I'm just a senior dev looking for a steady paycheck away from the rat race. Any tips for how I go about communicating that to potential employers?

theparanoid 10y ago
A resume doesn't need to be exhaustive. It's common to leave off a J.D. when applying to non-law positions (precisely because of this).
Retra 10y ago
Your resume only contains what you choose to put on it.

uniclaude 10y ago

Where I live (Japan), this is the most common strategy. The best way to get a job in Japan is to tailor your resume in order to show a maximum of loyalty. Anything too far from the norm can be a red flag (like not being married). The best advice to take from your post is to make sure you know which type of company you're applying to. A small bootstrapped lifestyle business probably won't hire like a hot SV funded startup, which makes a lot of sense.

borplk 10y ago
Being married is the norm in Japan? I thought they had a ton of singles.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

tonyedgecombe 10y ago

When they get bored after 6 months, they quit and go somewhere else I thought you had 100% retention rate?

rmdashrfroot 10y ago
100% reading comprehension, great work.
throwaway95837 10y ago
Read carefully. "using this hiring strategy has produced a 100% employee retention rate." Those who left were hired at an earlier time when I thought hiring the top tier Ivy Leaguers was the way to go.

muratsu 10y ago

How do you solve management problems when scaling? I understand your reasoning when it comes to well defined business requirements with well defined technical problems. But once the initial set of requirements are done, how do you proceed? I suspect you need at least some amount of overachievers to fill mid-level management roles.

nkohari 10y ago

It will also create a company that can't grow past the point where you are the lynchpin. Good leaders find people that will put them out of a job, not lackeys to do whatever they say. If you're happy where you are, then I congratulate you on your success, but when was the last time you took a vacation?

throwaway95837 10y ago
Actually the business mostly runs itself and I usually spend only about 2 hours a week on it. The business has a healthy profit margin so I can afford to over hire and build in redundancies so that even if one person is out sick for a few days, the other person picks up the slack without me having to do anything. Unlike many other companies who overwork their employees, I try to make sure that every employee can easily finish everything by 5pm. Otherwise things build up, problems arise, things don't get done, and I'd have to step in, which I don't want to do.

mgav 10y ago

Hmmm. Your "who knows how to take orders without question" requirement (paragraph 3) would discourage every great person I've ever met, while weakening your overall enterprise (what if the Titanic's jr. officers had respectfully asked questions about going full speed at night in waters known to have icebergs?).

UK-AL 10y ago
I don't think he wants great people. That's the point.
- user5994461 10y ago
  I think he wants cheap people. Everything he is looking for is hinting at cheap.
  - lj3 10y ago
    Not necessarily. He says he operates in NY, so he can't pay too cheap. Even the most loyal employee will jump ship if the competing offer is 2x what he's currently making, especially with NY cost of living. What he wants is stability. You'd be surprised how many very smart people put a premium on that sort of thing, especially when they get older.
    - user5994461 10y ago
      They won't get 2x offers if they don't have a pedigree and can't handle hard tech interviews. (Which is what he's filtering for). An employee with limited options = A more stable employee
      - lj3 10y ago
        Humbly disagree. 2x offers depends on how little he's paying them to begin with vs how easy it is to switch jobs. You don't need a pedigree or be able to handle hard tech interviews to switch jobs in NYC. You just need to go on a lot of interviews. Eventually, one will say yes. NYC isn't exactly a place where you have limited options. You want limited options? Try to find a job upstate.

deskamess 10y ago

This actually seems reasonable and fair under two criteria: - Questions... people need to ask questions (but not ad nauseam). - Compensation... 'need a job' should not translate to a desperate wage Understanding and acknowledging your employees have a life after work is important. The only question I have is how, or do you give out bonuses from your yearly profits.

VLM 10y ago

Seem to be dancing around saying you preferentially hire military veterans without actually saying it. Basically you've described my serious, competent, self disciplined ex-mil and reserves/NG coworkers. Wait... do I work for you?

drrectangle 10y ago

The problem with loyalty is you can only spend it in one place. Its like a points card at a grocery store.

tbendixson 10y ago

It's funny. I have always suspected employers were looking for this sort of thing. Hence the odd glee in their voice when they hear me talk about spending my hard earned money on discretionary purchases. The more I spend, the longer I stay. Perhaps the takeaway for all of us is that we all need to be humble and at least pretend we need our jobs, even if we're aggressively saving for an early retirement.

rinchik1 10y ago

Sounds like a 50 Shades of Gray scenario...

Wheaties466 10y ago

thank you for this answer. I'm glad that this is being enforced because this is literally me 100%. Glad to see that other people are looking for someone like me.

happywolf 10y ago

I kind of agree this strategy, but do note I am not looking at being cheap. My people are paid well above market rate, the point is I need execution and work done, there is a limit on how out-of-box and creative an employee should be. One can question the technical solution or even the business model, but after a decision is made by the business owner, execution must be done instead of incessant arguing over the merits and demerits of such decision. As such, I tend to hire those who don't take oneself too seriously. The OP's redflags I feel are corollary to this observation. Be humble and get shit done.

stratigos 10y ago

This is really freaking hilarious when you look past how cruel and exploitative it is :). Your hiring strategy is not "your" hiring strategy: its every mindless, exploitative, and compassionless corporation in the universe. In otherwords, youre overwhelmingly average! Youre contributing to the very problem youre having: no one wants to work for an entity that operates like this.

williamwrites 10y ago

Do you have anything available and how do I apply?

bootload 10y ago

"hire for attitude, train for skill" [0] is the business usual, this reads more like "hire for attitude and aptitude" [1] [0] https://hbr.org/2011/02/hire-for-attitude-train-for-sk https://hbr.org/2011/02/hire-for-attitude-train-for-sk [1] https://www.eremedia.com/ere/hiring-for-both-attitude-and-aptitude/ https://www.eremedia.com/ere/hiring-for-both-attitude-and-ap...