5 ms·

I may be reading into this too much, but I'm picking up a little bit of mild dislike for Johnson. I voted for him, and while that was easy when I looked at the

I may be reading into this too much, but I'm picking up a little bit of mild dislike for Johnson. I voted for him, and while that was easy when I looked at the other choices of Trump and Clinton (I don't dislike Stein, and I would have voted for Bernie had Clinton's team had not rigged the DNC and allowed him through), I also do strongly support him. I realize I'm a bit biased because I like the libertarian principles: prioritizing individual civil liberties, stopping human rights abuses and unnecessary wars, and streamlining government. I'm curious though because outside of disagreement with those, there's only one thing that I understand people disagree with: TPP (Johnson claims it isn't a crony capitalist deal and it does foster free trade). I guess I don't really understand why people have a mild dislike for him, especially when I see how some people adore Clinton or Trump -- it doesn't make sense to me. He doesn't come with the plutocratic baggage of Trump and Clinton (https://theintercept.com/2016/12/09/trump-makes-america-goldmans-again-maga/ https://theintercept.com/2016/12/09/trump-makes-america-gold...), which in itself is a great thing to like about him.

timecube 10y ago
Most people don't agree with libertarianism. That's basically it.
- wallace_f 10y ago
  That seems like a broad stroke. Libertarianism is just a collection of different ideals, the same way socialism and capitalism are, around a few central values. The primary tenants are the importance of civil liberties and autonomy (as opposed to authoritarianism). Beyond that, you could be a libertarian and promote laissez faire capitalism, or you could be a libertarian and promote socialism. Saying you broadly disagree with libertarianism just confuses me: you don't agree with civil liberties and you want authoritarian government? (it's a rhetorical question)
  - timecube 10y ago
    Libertarian socialism aka anarchism isn't really related to propertarianism. And again, most people agree with neither.
    - wallace_f 10y ago
      any form of libertarianism != anarchism! propertarianism is a libertarian philosophy
dylandrop 10y ago
> I realize I'm a bit biased because I like the libertarian principles: prioritizing individual civil liberties, stopping human rights abuses and unnecessary wars, and streamlining government. I think those are completely reasonable things to like in his policies. And as a caveat, I don't personally dislike Gary Johnson (the man) himself. I just haven't heard a compelling argument for what he'd do to address corporate overreach, which I (personally) find the biggest problem average Americans face today, whether it is O&G companies destroying our environment or financial institutions causing global financial crises. I'm not saying (by any means!) Trump or Clinton would do any better, but I don't see how rolling back oversight on the private sector really solves the problem. I wish solving our problems was as simple as dismantling our governments but I don't see how that would help us, as it's our only (very flawed) leverage. I think doing so would decrease the little leverage we have. So to answer your concern, I think the reason people don't like Johnson is because he was running for a political office where they believe he would act against their own best interest.
- wallace_f 10y ago
  > I wish solving our problems was as simple as dismantling our governments I can understand that. It's certainly a topic for debate, not one where one side has proven to be right or wrong. Johnson wasn't really in favor of dismantling government oversight on everything. He has stated he's in favor of agencies which protect environment, health, water, etc. He wants market-based solutions like a carbon tax where they will work better than heavy handed regulation.
  - dylandrop 10y ago
    > He has stated he's in favor of agencies which protect environment, health, water, etc. He wants market-based solutions like a carbon tax where they will work better than heavy handed regulation. I could theoretically get behind some of that. However it doesn't look like Gary Johnson actually supports a carbon tax: http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/26/gary-johnson-no-to-carbon-taxes-and-mand http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/26/gary-johnson-no-to-carbon-... Perhaps the hard political position libertarians put themselves in is between the "no taxes, no regulation, ever!" conservatives and people who aspire to only have regulatory institutions where it makes sense (perhaps such as yourself). Moreover, at a certain point, it seems like market-based solutions and heavy handed regulations become essentially the same. Imagining an extreme scenario: what if you had a carbon tax of $1M per cubic meter of CO2 burned? It would certainly seem a lot like a regulation at that point.
pvdebbe 10y ago
Gary has quite a bit of collectivist ideals, to the point he's basically a democrat in the books of many, including myself. It is perhaps this "betrayal" of the party ideals that makes him unfavorable. It's true also that he as a candidate sits well between the R/D camps. IMO true (truer) libertarians such as A Petersen or Rand Paul would have been great.

timecube 10y ago

Most people don't agree with libertarianism. That's basically it.

wallace_f 10y ago
That seems like a broad stroke. Libertarianism is just a collection of different ideals, the same way socialism and capitalism are, around a few central values. The primary tenants are the importance of civil liberties and autonomy (as opposed to authoritarianism). Beyond that, you could be a libertarian and promote laissez faire capitalism, or you could be a libertarian and promote socialism. Saying you broadly disagree with libertarianism just confuses me: you don't agree with civil liberties and you want authoritarian government? (it's a rhetorical question)
- timecube 10y ago
  Libertarian socialism aka anarchism isn't really related to propertarianism. And again, most people agree with neither.
  - wallace_f 10y ago
    any form of libertarianism != anarchism! propertarianism is a libertarian philosophy

dylandrop 10y ago

> I realize I'm a bit biased because I like the libertarian principles: prioritizing individual civil liberties, stopping human rights abuses and unnecessary wars, and streamlining government. I think those are completely reasonable things to like in his policies. And as a caveat, I don't personally dislike Gary Johnson (the man) himself. I just haven't heard a compelling argument for what he'd do to address corporate overreach, which I (personally) find the biggest problem average Americans face today, whether it is O&G companies destroying our environment or financial institutions causing global financial crises. I'm not saying (by any means!) Trump or Clinton would do any better, but I don't see how rolling back oversight on the private sector really solves the problem. I wish solving our problems was as simple as dismantling our governments but I don't see how that would help us, as it's our only (very flawed) leverage. I think doing so would decrease the little leverage we have. So to answer your concern, I think the reason people don't like Johnson is because he was running for a political office where they believe he would act against their own best interest.

wallace_f 10y ago
> I wish solving our problems was as simple as dismantling our governments I can understand that. It's certainly a topic for debate, not one where one side has proven to be right or wrong. Johnson wasn't really in favor of dismantling government oversight on everything. He has stated he's in favor of agencies which protect environment, health, water, etc. He wants market-based solutions like a carbon tax where they will work better than heavy handed regulation.
- dylandrop 10y ago
  > He has stated he's in favor of agencies which protect environment, health, water, etc. He wants market-based solutions like a carbon tax where they will work better than heavy handed regulation. I could theoretically get behind some of that. However it doesn't look like Gary Johnson actually supports a carbon tax: http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/26/gary-johnson-no-to-carbon-taxes-and-mand http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/26/gary-johnson-no-to-carbon-... Perhaps the hard political position libertarians put themselves in is between the "no taxes, no regulation, ever!" conservatives and people who aspire to only have regulatory institutions where it makes sense (perhaps such as yourself). Moreover, at a certain point, it seems like market-based solutions and heavy handed regulations become essentially the same. Imagining an extreme scenario: what if you had a carbon tax of $1M per cubic meter of CO2 burned? It would certainly seem a lot like a regulation at that point.

pvdebbe 10y ago

Gary has quite a bit of collectivist ideals, to the point he's basically a democrat in the books of many, including myself. It is perhaps this "betrayal" of the party ideals that makes him unfavorable. It's true also that he as a candidate sits well between the R/D camps. IMO true (truer) libertarians such as A Petersen or Rand Paul would have been great.