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Well duh. Yes I realize that comment seems "trite" What is it that the genome is doing. Look around and see how it is expressing itself. I'm not a huge fan

by socmag 10y ago

Well duh. Yes I realize that comment seems "trite" What is it that the genome is doing. Look around and see how it is expressing itself. I'm not a huge fan of Dawkins recently after he went a bit nuts on the whole atheism thing. Not because of the atheism thing but because it distracted him from what he was really about. The genome is expressing itself, and it is way more than selfish. That thing is regression analysis to a large power. Constantly calculating minimal cost to self preservation and better versions of itself. We can learn a lot. Personally I think its whole purpose is to build its own God. And the next God and the next... and it is doing it. (I am a "classical" atheist) Down votes or up votes, please explain.

projektir 10y ago
I would say that the genome is not getting to be truly selfish here, rather, it's just a tool of evolution, and evolution as a whole is the one with the purpose, but I don't know if it has enough forward-vision to create a specific entity as much as go for higher complexity whether it's through one complex being or a complex network of simple beings. There's a lot of odd downvoting in this thread...
- socmag 10y ago
  "Evolution" is a man made term for "The Genome is trying to create a better entity than itself" I think with regard to humans it is well on its way to manifesting itself with that purpose... It's called" The sum total of the Internet". Not sure I agree with its choices, but compared to an individual there is quite a large organism at large there, for better or worse, and that thing is just as potent and self protective as DNA. Go try attack it. Good luck. Evolution just got evolved. The Genome is building new infrastructure as we speak.
  - projektir 10y ago
    Funny, for all the claims that evolution has been defeated, humans act very much like everything under evolution has acted since it got started. And those genomes that want to make a better version of themselves seem to just follow what evolution wants them to do to this day. Without evolution, and the precursor to it (Big Bang if you will) the genomes wouldn't exist to begin with. It is not from their own cause that they came to exist.
    - socmag 10y ago
      Yes and we should be a little bit more humble about it. Stepping stones and all. Looking back at Dinosaurs and thinking how clever we are is pretty egotistical. I agree.
posterboy 10y ago
>That thing is regression analysis to a large power. Constantly calculating minimal cost to self preservation and better versions of itself Edited: That doesn't sound very articulate, hence doubtful. Your interpretation is just that, recognizing already known patterns. Does that relate to the evolutionary "purpose" from the title? The implicit idea of order ("better") is largely based on the temporal succession of what, as far as I can tell, is indistinguishable from randomness, because it relies on random mutation and other genetic variation moduli. What existential property this really optimizes for is open. The crux is, existence itself is hardly a logical property. I mean, "exist to exist" really is not a new revelation. It's philosophically akin to "I think therefore I am", but trivially speaking, that's just the pattern recognition at work.
- socmag 10y ago
  It's highly rational. Reduce Entropy. Period
  - posterboy 10y ago
    Doesn't mean you should write your comment by the same principle. Reducing entropy by growing more complex seems counterintuitive. I don't see rationality in the chaos. I don't even see what your "It" is. Attribution of rational reason to an "it" seems like a short cut leading to a domain error. Ultimately this leads to discussion about free will and what not, for which a short-lived discussion does indeed not seem to be the right format.
    - socmag 10y ago
      Well Hacker News is definitely not the medium for this discussion, I'll grant you that. It's not clear to me where is a better choice. Could go for phys.org or stackoverflow I guess, but equally inane. Nobody likes to talk about metaphysics, which is what this is really about I guess. For good reason I suppose. Then again, before Darwin and Einstein, everything was very clear. Right now very rational people are looking into string theory, pilot wave theory, simulated universes and a heck of a lot more. Meanwhile, we are attempting to build self driving cars, automated systems that tempt us to buy crap we don't need and reduce the planet to a winner takes all philosophy. Nothing about that seems "Human" Entertain me on why the universe isn't trying to build its own god. Happy to take the discussion elsewhere.

by socmag 10y ago

projektir 10y ago

I would say that the genome is not getting to be truly selfish here, rather, it's just a tool of evolution, and evolution as a whole is the one with the purpose, but I don't know if it has enough forward-vision to create a specific entity as much as go for higher complexity whether it's through one complex being or a complex network of simple beings. There's a lot of odd downvoting in this thread...

socmag 10y ago
"Evolution" is a man made term for "The Genome is trying to create a better entity than itself" I think with regard to humans it is well on its way to manifesting itself with that purpose... It's called" The sum total of the Internet". Not sure I agree with its choices, but compared to an individual there is quite a large organism at large there, for better or worse, and that thing is just as potent and self protective as DNA. Go try attack it. Good luck. Evolution just got evolved. The Genome is building new infrastructure as we speak.
- projektir 10y ago
  Funny, for all the claims that evolution has been defeated, humans act very much like everything under evolution has acted since it got started. And those genomes that want to make a better version of themselves seem to just follow what evolution wants them to do to this day. Without evolution, and the precursor to it (Big Bang if you will) the genomes wouldn't exist to begin with. It is not from their own cause that they came to exist.
  - socmag 10y ago
    Yes and we should be a little bit more humble about it. Stepping stones and all. Looking back at Dinosaurs and thinking how clever we are is pretty egotistical. I agree.

posterboy 10y ago

>That thing is regression analysis to a large power. Constantly calculating minimal cost to self preservation and better versions of itself Edited: That doesn't sound very articulate, hence doubtful. Your interpretation is just that, recognizing already known patterns. Does that relate to the evolutionary "purpose" from the title? The implicit idea of order ("better") is largely based on the temporal succession of what, as far as I can tell, is indistinguishable from randomness, because it relies on random mutation and other genetic variation moduli. What existential property this really optimizes for is open. The crux is, existence itself is hardly a logical property. I mean, "exist to exist" really is not a new revelation. It's philosophically akin to "I think therefore I am", but trivially speaking, that's just the pattern recognition at work.

socmag 10y ago
It's highly rational. Reduce Entropy. Period
- posterboy 10y ago
  Doesn't mean you should write your comment by the same principle. Reducing entropy by growing more complex seems counterintuitive. I don't see rationality in the chaos. I don't even see what your "It" is. Attribution of rational reason to an "it" seems like a short cut leading to a domain error. Ultimately this leads to discussion about free will and what not, for which a short-lived discussion does indeed not seem to be the right format.
  - socmag 10y ago
    Well Hacker News is definitely not the medium for this discussion, I'll grant you that. It's not clear to me where is a better choice. Could go for phys.org or stackoverflow I guess, but equally inane. Nobody likes to talk about metaphysics, which is what this is really about I guess. For good reason I suppose. Then again, before Darwin and Einstein, everything was very clear. Right now very rational people are looking into string theory, pilot wave theory, simulated universes and a heck of a lot more. Meanwhile, we are attempting to build self driving cars, automated systems that tempt us to buy crap we don't need and reduce the planet to a winner takes all philosophy. Nothing about that seems "Human" Entertain me on why the universe isn't trying to build its own god. Happy to take the discussion elsewhere.