5 ms·

"yet we make human mothers go back to work after 6 weeks" No, we don't. We don't make them do anything. They are free to pursue whatever course of action the

by rsync 10y ago

"yet we make human mothers go back to work after 6 weeks" No, we don't. We don't make them do anything. They are free to pursue whatever course of action they choose to. Many, many parents choose not to go back to work - ever. I hope it works out great for AMEX and their workers - two private entities that agreed on one detail, among many, of their compensation package. Good for them. Yes, I do have children - three of them, in fact - thanks for asking!

paulddraper 10y ago
> We don't make them do anything. Agreed. I don't make parenting decisions for your family. Please don't make them for mine. I'll be responsible for my decisions, not yours. Thanks. (Parent of two)
emperorcezar 10y ago
There is a lot if hidden privilege that allows you to think for most people it is a choice.
- paulddraper 10y ago
  And there's a lot of hidden choice that you are ignoring. A government mandate requiring companies to provide paid leave forces (i.e. opposite of choice) everyone else to pay for it.
  - Frondo 10y ago
    That is called society, and as someone who pays a lot of tax, has owned businesses in the past, and plans to do so again, I fully support it. And I speak out in favor of such ideas and plans, to encourage my fellow citizens to support these as well.
    - paulddraper 10y ago
      And once you have enough citizens supporting such ideas and plans, you can force the rest.
      - Frondo 10y ago
        Well, yes, just like taxes are a thing, and you can't drive on sidewalks or against traffic lights, and we all pay for fire, police, courts, food inspectors, and so on. Turns out the world is full of coercive behavior--if you kill someone, there's generally a consequence, and so on. Again, that's society.
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    When the "choice" is to not be able to earn a living, it's not a choice. And I see no problem with a government mandate for it. Because that provides "choice" for the new parents. Your way usually denies them that choice.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- rsync 10y ago
  "There is a lot if hidden privilege that allows you to think for most people it is a choice." It's not hidden at all. I am quite privileged as are all of the people in first world economies of which we speak. You (yes, you) are among the top 1% wealthiest of the worlds population. I have no idea why the children of my comment assume a very, very false dichotomy of working through your child's childhood or becoming destitute. Now, more than ever, there is a huge swath of available and acceptable behavior between those two extremes.
  - unprepare 10y ago
    >Now, more than ever, there is a huge swath of available and acceptable behavior between those two extremes just to flesh this out further, could you provide some examples of what you mean?
codegeek 10y ago
I get your point but as a father of 2 kids, I can tell you that choosing to not go back to work is not as easy as you make it sound. Some people don't have a lot of financial flexibility (you can blame them for it sure) and quitting job to stay home is difficult unless you drastically reduce your financial liabilities which sometimes is just not possible in a short term.
draw_down 10y ago
Hmm, I guess starving is technically a choice.
st3v3r 10y ago
"No, we don't. We don't make them do anything." Yes, we do. This ignoring of reality, and what it requires to survive is really damn old.
guelo 10y ago
Sure, just like we don't make people work in order to have food and shelter.
drewrv 10y ago
You don't "choose" to give someone your wallet because you weighed the options and decided against getting shot. You were robbed. Similarly, poverty in the US is brutal. To choose between spending time with your newborn during a crucial time period or becoming impoverished is not a real choice.
hobarrera 10y ago
> They are free to pursue whatever course of action they choose to. I think you're being ridiculous. Of course they can opt-out of going back to work, but in modern society, this means losing your home, lack of food, and probably, getting your child taking away by some form of social services. Unless you're in the very rich 1%.

by rsync 10y ago

paulddraper 10y ago

> We don't make them do anything. Agreed. I don't make parenting decisions for your family. Please don't make them for mine. I'll be responsible for my decisions, not yours. Thanks. (Parent of two)

emperorcezar 10y ago

There is a lot if hidden privilege that allows you to think for most people it is a choice.

paulddraper 10y ago
And there's a lot of hidden choice that you are ignoring. A government mandate requiring companies to provide paid leave forces (i.e. opposite of choice) everyone else to pay for it.
- Frondo 10y ago
  That is called society, and as someone who pays a lot of tax, has owned businesses in the past, and plans to do so again, I fully support it. And I speak out in favor of such ideas and plans, to encourage my fellow citizens to support these as well.
  - paulddraper 10y ago
    And once you have enough citizens supporting such ideas and plans, you can force the rest.
    - Frondo 10y ago
      Well, yes, just like taxes are a thing, and you can't drive on sidewalks or against traffic lights, and we all pay for fire, police, courts, food inspectors, and so on. Turns out the world is full of coercive behavior--if you kill someone, there's generally a consequence, and so on. Again, that's society.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  When the "choice" is to not be able to earn a living, it's not a choice. And I see no problem with a government mandate for it. Because that provides "choice" for the new parents. Your way usually denies them that choice.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
rsync 10y ago
"There is a lot if hidden privilege that allows you to think for most people it is a choice." It's not hidden at all. I am quite privileged as are all of the people in first world economies of which we speak. You (yes, you) are among the top 1% wealthiest of the worlds population. I have no idea why the children of my comment assume a very, very false dichotomy of working through your child's childhood or becoming destitute. Now, more than ever, there is a huge swath of available and acceptable behavior between those two extremes.
- unprepare 10y ago
  >Now, more than ever, there is a huge swath of available and acceptable behavior between those two extremes just to flesh this out further, could you provide some examples of what you mean?

codegeek 10y ago

I get your point but as a father of 2 kids, I can tell you that choosing to not go back to work is not as easy as you make it sound. Some people don't have a lot of financial flexibility (you can blame them for it sure) and quitting job to stay home is difficult unless you drastically reduce your financial liabilities which sometimes is just not possible in a short term.

draw_down 10y ago

Hmm, I guess starving is technically a choice.

st3v3r 10y ago

"No, we don't. We don't make them do anything." Yes, we do. This ignoring of reality, and what it requires to survive is really damn old.

guelo 10y ago

Sure, just like we don't make people work in order to have food and shelter.

drewrv 10y ago

You don't "choose" to give someone your wallet because you weighed the options and decided against getting shot. You were robbed. Similarly, poverty in the US is brutal. To choose between spending time with your newborn during a crucial time period or becoming impoverished is not a real choice.

hobarrera 10y ago

> They are free to pursue whatever course of action they choose to. I think you're being ridiculous. Of course they can opt-out of going back to work, but in modern society, this means losing your home, lack of food, and probably, getting your child taking away by some form of social services. Unless you're in the very rich 1%.