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>To those who don't understand parental leave: it is self-evident that child-bearing is a necessary condition for the continuation of society. I like the "chil

>To those who don't understand parental leave: it is self-evident that child-bearing is a necessary condition for the continuation of society. I like the "children are public goods" explanation for why the birth rate is declining. We could address this by subsidizing maternal leave or childcare services. From Augustus to modern Japan such incentives have proven pretty ineffective, as they don't scale with the wealth of the parents. Giving parents some percentage of their children's tax revenue would. This policy has the unfortunate characteristic of trigging an intense moral disgust reaction in all who hear it, including me when I first thought of it, so perhaps is best left untried. But then again, if catholics can give 10 percent to God, atheists can give 10 percent to their parents, who are, after all, their creators.

azernik 10y ago
The issue with Japan isn't that maternal services are ineffective; it's that they're both underfunded (both shortages and high costs are common), and insufficient to overcome the other penalties that Japanese society imposes on working mothers.
Naritai 10y ago
I'd like to see a citation that subsidized childcare is ineffective. Here, for a counterpoint, is one saying that subsidized childcare _does_ increase birthrate (note, incidentally, that this comes from WSJ, which is not normally a big proponent of government programs): http://blogs.wsj.com/juggle/2011/04/27/child-care-helps-boost-fertility/ http://blogs.wsj.com/juggle/2011/04/27/child-care-helps-boos...
- emodendroket 10y ago
  The Japanese and Russian system of payments for childbirth haven't really reversed their demographic issues, but I'd argue that's because the obstacles go deeper than just that (like, in Japan, the money is nice, but it's much more difficult to be a working mother than it is in most advanced economies and the economy has been largely stagnant for decades).
  - Naritai 10y ago
    I agree that there are a lot of other cultural issues as well. However, I'm happy to say that these cultural attitudes are slowly changing in the US, and (at least in large cities) it is becoming 'ok' to be a working mother. That said, the payments in Japan are afaik a few thousand $ per year, whereas childcare in California (I assume it's at least comparable in urban Japan!) is ~20k per year. So to have a meaningful discussion about subsidies, the payments need to be on the same order of magnitude of the cost of childcare.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - emodendroket 10y ago
      OK, but the fact that the countries with the worst aging demographics are, like, Italy, Korea, and Japan illustrates a certain pattern.
nugget 10y ago
I like the idea of increasing the child tax credit to something like $10-15k per child, up from the current level of a few thousand. The increased incentive would only be fully realized by families who could scale their income up to match. Based on what I see and hear from my peers it seems like many middle class couples are on the fence (financially) in terms of having ''one more kid'' and this could help close the gap.

azernik 10y ago

The issue with Japan isn't that maternal services are ineffective; it's that they're both underfunded (both shortages and high costs are common), and insufficient to overcome the other penalties that Japanese society imposes on working mothers.

Naritai 10y ago

I'd like to see a citation that subsidized childcare is ineffective. Here, for a counterpoint, is one saying that subsidized childcare _does_ increase birthrate (note, incidentally, that this comes from WSJ, which is not normally a big proponent of government programs): http://blogs.wsj.com/juggle/2011/04/27/child-care-helps-boost-fertility/ http://blogs.wsj.com/juggle/2011/04/27/child-care-helps-boos...

emodendroket 10y ago
The Japanese and Russian system of payments for childbirth haven't really reversed their demographic issues, but I'd argue that's because the obstacles go deeper than just that (like, in Japan, the money is nice, but it's much more difficult to be a working mother than it is in most advanced economies and the economy has been largely stagnant for decades).
- Naritai 10y ago
  I agree that there are a lot of other cultural issues as well. However, I'm happy to say that these cultural attitudes are slowly changing in the US, and (at least in large cities) it is becoming 'ok' to be a working mother. That said, the payments in Japan are afaik a few thousand $ per year, whereas childcare in California (I assume it's at least comparable in urban Japan!) is ~20k per year. So to have a meaningful discussion about subsidies, the payments need to be on the same order of magnitude of the cost of childcare.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - emodendroket 10y ago
    OK, but the fact that the countries with the worst aging demographics are, like, Italy, Korea, and Japan illustrates a certain pattern.

nugget 10y ago

I like the idea of increasing the child tax credit to something like $10-15k per child, up from the current level of a few thousand. The increased incentive would only be fully realized by families who could scale their income up to match. Based on what I see and hear from my peers it seems like many middle class couples are on the fence (financially) in terms of having ''one more kid'' and this could help close the gap.