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The basis of this article makes no sense. What developers love about Macs is the OS and the nice integration between OS and hardware. Even if you hate the new h

by maratc 10y ago

The basis of this article makes no sense. What developers love about Macs is the OS and the nice integration between OS and hardware. Even if you hate the new hardware, it makes sense to continue juicing your current one and see what comes along next year; it makes zero sense to install Linux on a fringe hardware (Mac).

codemusings 10y ago
I guess it depends on what kind of developers you think of. Unless you're developing macOS or iOS Software why bother with an inferior software eco system? Brew is a hot mess. MacPorts is slow as fuck.
- l1k 10y ago
  Personally I've been using fink for >12 years now, I enjoy being able to use the familiar apt-get and dpkg to manage packages on macOS: http://finkproject.org/ http://finkproject.org/ I even backported the then-current version to MacOS X 10.4 (Tiger) last year. :-) https://github.com/l1k/fink/commits/branch_0_38_tenfour https://github.com/l1k/fink/commits/branch_0_38_tenfour
- maratc 10y ago
  I develop backend components that run on Linux servers. The editors, the terminal, the debuggers on Mac OS are pretty good for me. Brew works just fine for my line of work.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
thomasfl 10y ago
If I'd wanted Linux, I would prefer a windows laptop with flipable touch screen. The Lenovo Yoga would have been great if they'd only support Linux: http://venturebeat.com/2016/09/21/lenovo-confirms-that-linux-wont-work-on-yoga-900-and-900s-laptops/ http://venturebeat.com/2016/09/21/lenovo-confirms-that-linux...
- netrikare 10y ago
  Apparently you can now install Linux on yogas: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Lenovo-Yoga-Series-Notebooks/Yoga-900-and-Ideapad-710S-Linux-Only-BIOS/ta-p/3466850 https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Lenovo-Yoga-Series-Notebooks/Yo...
l1k 10y ago
Well, it turns out there are folks who like Apple's form language but can't get (all of) their work done on macOS or don't want to use it for some reason. So there's a target audience for Linux on the Mac. I'm not saying it's a huge crowd.
maggit 10y ago
Macs have a good hw/sw-integration, but there are other features as well; I bought my first MBP for its trackpad, which is still unparalleled, and (as l1k puts it) its form language. I'm running Linux, which doesn't offer the same hw/sw-integration quality, but it's pretty good!
- maratc 10y ago
  Couple of guys in my office did the same, but came back to OS X after weeks of suffering problems with high-DPI support, multiple screens, bluetooth etc.
  - wjoe 10y ago
    High DPI on Linux is indeed a mess, but I find running the screen at a lower resolution preferable to Apple's implementation of DPI scaling anyway. Bluetooth is very broken too. Not sure if that's an issue with the drivers or the Linux bluetooth stack in general. Fortunately I only use it for my wireless headphones, which I can live without. WiFi used to be a big problem when I tried Linux on a Mac at a previous job, thanks to terrible Broadcom drivers, but that all seems fine now. Been running Linux on a Mac for 2 and a half months now, for me personally the improvements are significant and the issues minor.
- criddell 10y ago
  The trackpad and also the retina display. If you work with text, how could you not love a high-dpi display? After you get used to it, moving back to a standard 1080p screen feels like you are reading a laser printed page through a screen door.
  - wjoe 10y ago
    >how could you not love a high-dpi display? When the software doesn't handle it well. I don't particularly like any implementation of high DPI scaling. OS X's scaling caused performance issues for me, and programs would get confused moving between monitors. Linux doesn't have any way that I know of to cope with monitors with significantly different resolutions - eg, I can make the window manager scale everything 2x so it looks good on the 'retina' display, but I still have a 1080p monitor attached too, so then everything is huge on that. Even without multi monitor issues, scaling tends to be picky with some programs on most OSs. OS X seems to be the most consistent, Linux is a roulette wheel depending on your GPU/window manager/program/day of the week. Windows works sometimes but looks blurry. I have Linux installed on my work Mac and just run the 'retina' screen at 1920x1200.
fulafel 10y ago
There are lots of developers happily running Linux on Apple laptops. It's traditionally been a good choice if IT dept makes you pick between a standardized random business laptop and a Mac.
- maratc 10y ago
  I'm not saying there aren't; in my experience, Linux on a Mac didn't go smooth at all. Connecting Retina display and 1080p monitor at the same time, specifically, was a huge pain.
  - rhodysurf 10y ago
    That is hopefully changed now with Wayland

by maratc 10y ago

codemusings 10y ago

I guess it depends on what kind of developers you think of. Unless you're developing macOS or iOS Software why bother with an inferior software eco system? Brew is a hot mess. MacPorts is slow as fuck.

l1k 10y ago
Personally I've been using fink for >12 years now, I enjoy being able to use the familiar apt-get and dpkg to manage packages on macOS: http://finkproject.org/ http://finkproject.org/ I even backported the then-current version to MacOS X 10.4 (Tiger) last year. :-) https://github.com/l1k/fink/commits/branch_0_38_tenfour https://github.com/l1k/fink/commits/branch_0_38_tenfour
maratc 10y ago
I develop backend components that run on Linux servers. The editors, the terminal, the debuggers on Mac OS are pretty good for me. Brew works just fine for my line of work.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

thomasfl 10y ago

If I'd wanted Linux, I would prefer a windows laptop with flipable touch screen. The Lenovo Yoga would have been great if they'd only support Linux: http://venturebeat.com/2016/09/21/lenovo-confirms-that-linux-wont-work-on-yoga-900-and-900s-laptops/ http://venturebeat.com/2016/09/21/lenovo-confirms-that-linux...

netrikare 10y ago
Apparently you can now install Linux on yogas: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Lenovo-Yoga-Series-Notebooks/Yoga-900-and-Ideapad-710S-Linux-Only-BIOS/ta-p/3466850 https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Lenovo-Yoga-Series-Notebooks/Yo...

l1k 10y ago

Well, it turns out there are folks who like Apple's form language but can't get (all of) their work done on macOS or don't want to use it for some reason. So there's a target audience for Linux on the Mac. I'm not saying it's a huge crowd.

maggit 10y ago

Macs have a good hw/sw-integration, but there are other features as well; I bought my first MBP for its trackpad, which is still unparalleled, and (as l1k puts it) its form language. I'm running Linux, which doesn't offer the same hw/sw-integration quality, but it's pretty good!

maratc 10y ago
Couple of guys in my office did the same, but came back to OS X after weeks of suffering problems with high-DPI support, multiple screens, bluetooth etc.
- wjoe 10y ago
  High DPI on Linux is indeed a mess, but I find running the screen at a lower resolution preferable to Apple's implementation of DPI scaling anyway. Bluetooth is very broken too. Not sure if that's an issue with the drivers or the Linux bluetooth stack in general. Fortunately I only use it for my wireless headphones, which I can live without. WiFi used to be a big problem when I tried Linux on a Mac at a previous job, thanks to terrible Broadcom drivers, but that all seems fine now. Been running Linux on a Mac for 2 and a half months now, for me personally the improvements are significant and the issues minor.
criddell 10y ago
The trackpad and also the retina display. If you work with text, how could you not love a high-dpi display? After you get used to it, moving back to a standard 1080p screen feels like you are reading a laser printed page through a screen door.
- wjoe 10y ago
  >how could you not love a high-dpi display? When the software doesn't handle it well. I don't particularly like any implementation of high DPI scaling. OS X's scaling caused performance issues for me, and programs would get confused moving between monitors. Linux doesn't have any way that I know of to cope with monitors with significantly different resolutions - eg, I can make the window manager scale everything 2x so it looks good on the 'retina' display, but I still have a 1080p monitor attached too, so then everything is huge on that. Even without multi monitor issues, scaling tends to be picky with some programs on most OSs. OS X seems to be the most consistent, Linux is a roulette wheel depending on your GPU/window manager/program/day of the week. Windows works sometimes but looks blurry. I have Linux installed on my work Mac and just run the 'retina' screen at 1920x1200.

fulafel 10y ago

There are lots of developers happily running Linux on Apple laptops. It's traditionally been a good choice if IT dept makes you pick between a standardized random business laptop and a Mac.

maratc 10y ago
I'm not saying there aren't; in my experience, Linux on a Mac didn't go smooth at all. Connecting Retina display and 1080p monitor at the same time, specifically, was a huge pain.
- rhodysurf 10y ago
  That is hopefully changed now with Wayland