4 ms·

Million-Year-Old 'Hero Bug' Emerges From Cave

79 points by happy-go-lucky 10y ago

bottled_poe 10y ago
So, you're saying that you opened up this cave and found that the only form of life was this "hero" bug that seems to kill off all other forms of life. I think I saw this in a movie once and it didn't end well for us fleshy folk.
- netsec_burn 10y ago
  The bacteria is benign, it says so in the article.
  - saycheese 10y ago
    Just because it's not pathogenic by default doesn't mean it could change or, more likely, be changed: http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/2013/03/genetically-engineered-bioweapons-a-new-breed-of-weapons-for-modern-warfare/ http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/2013/03/genetically-engineered-bio...
  - baldfat 10y ago
    They also said dinosaurs couldn't reproduce in Jurassic Park.
    - novia 10y ago
      Jurassic Park was also fiction.
      - baldfat 10y ago
        Come on it was funny.
  - Cthulhu_ 10y ago
    Non-benign bacteria used to not be resistant to antibiotics, too.
    - planteen 10y ago
      NVM, deleted
      - euyyn 10y ago
        > That's not true. >> These genes may be transferred from non-disease-causing bacteria to those that do cause disease It looks like it's true.
lojack 10y ago
Forgive me in my ignorance of how antibacterials work, but wouldn't an equally plausible explanation be that these bacteria's simply haven't developed characteristics that modern antibacterial drugs target?
- 300bps 10y ago
  The article was more click bait than science. Pretty disappointing coming from NPR.
- mrob 10y ago
  That might be true for narrow-spectrum antibiotics, but broad-spectrum antibiotics target fundamental features that evolved very early so they're universal in bacteria, eg. beta-lactams such as penicillin target the enzymes that bacteria use to make their cell walls. In this case resistance occurs by attacking the antibiotic itself, producing extra enzyme so there's some spare, or tweaking the enzyme so the antibiotic can't harm it. It would be a much bigger story if bacteria were found with a completely different method of cell wall construction.
- Brockenstein 10y ago
  Well they sensitive to man-made antibiotics which by definition are modern antibotic drugs, and substances they've had no exposure to. But it has resistance to many naturally occurring anti-biotics, which would suggest some exposure to develop resistance. And there's probably some telltale differences between acquired resistance and natural immunity because your structure is such that you're not vulnerable. I think if you had more knowledge about the subject you'd understand how your idea isn't as plausible as it sounds.
- novia 10y ago
  The idea is plausible, but testable. I am sure they've gone in and sequenced the DNA in this bacteria's genome and found the genes which confer antibiotic resistance, in addition to doing the lab tests showing that it can survive exposure. DNA sequencing is pretty much standard procedure now when looking at previously unknown organisms. Think about it. How would they even know that this organism is something new without comparing its DNA to the other DNA samples microbiologists have collected? If they hadn't done this, it would be a non-story.
vosper 10y ago
> "It changed our understanding because it means antibiotic resistance didn't evolve in the clinic through our use. The resistance is hardwired," she says. But if that was true wouldn't bacteria always have been resistant to these "natural" antibiotics (the majority of those that we use, according to this article) and this they never would have been effective in the first place? And if that's true, how was this built-in resistance suddenly switched on to the extent that scientists are now talking about a future where bacteria we could easily treat a few decades ago will be unstoppable? I think either I'm missing some important details, or this article is.
- Brockenstein 10y ago
  Well for starters you can't use this bacteria and all bacteria interchangeably. Secondly bacteria of all sorts live in different eco systems. But all bacteria doesn't live in every eco system. They're not subject to the same stresses, attacks, and naturally don't develop immunity to things they're not exposed to and all bacteria aren't always exposed to everything... You're kind of going all or nothing for millions of species of bacteria and that's obviously overly simplistic. You might as well make the argument that because cheetahs can run 60mph, so shouldn't all vertebrates be capable of that?
  - takingflac 10y ago
    I would think that having a resistance an antibiotic meant that a bacteria was losing out on a different advantage. This is why resistant bacteria only exist in places where having the resistance, hospitals etc., is more beneficial than what it lost to get the resistance. For example if a cheetah developed a larger body at the cost of speed. It wouldn't survive as well unless there was a benefit to being larger but slower.
- Cthulhu_ 10y ago
  As the article hints at, it depends on environment; this particular bacteria was in a very hostile environment, where it had to compete with other bacteria for nutrients. Outside, there's enough room and food for everyone, so there was less of a need to develop resistances.
lettergram 10y ago
Probably just evolved to be resistant to penicillin, either it never evolved to be susceptible or it evolved to not be susceptible. In either case, the cave environment had something to do with it. I wouldn't suspect this is too news worthy.
lettergram 10y ago
Probably just evolved to be resistant to penicillin, either it never evolved to be susceptible or it evolved to not be susceptible. In either case, the cave environment had something to do with it. I wouldn't suspect this is too news worthy.
filoeleven 10y ago
A bit off topic, but Lechuguilla Cave, where the bacteria was found, is an incredible sight. Large portions of Planet Earth: Caves was filmed there, and since access to the cave is extremely restricted it's the only way most of us will get to see it. The formations they found there are breathtaking. If memory serves me correctly, it's also where they found what they dubbed "snotcicles", giant bacteria colonies that had grown so big they were dripping from the ceiling, and whose growth was fueled by strong acidic compounds. I don't know if that was this bacteria or something a bit more garden-variety, but it just goes to show you what kind of wild stuff happens in tiny, sealed-off ecosystems.

So, you're saying that you opened up this cave and found that the only form of life was this "hero" bug that seems to kill off all other forms of life. I think I saw this in a movie once and it didn't end well for us fleshy folk.

netsec_burn 10y ago
The bacteria is benign, it says so in the article.
- saycheese 10y ago
  Just because it's not pathogenic by default doesn't mean it could change or, more likely, be changed: http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/2013/03/genetically-engineered-bioweapons-a-new-breed-of-weapons-for-modern-warfare/ http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/2013/03/genetically-engineered-bio...
- baldfat 10y ago
  They also said dinosaurs couldn't reproduce in Jurassic Park.
  - novia 10y ago
    Jurassic Park was also fiction.
    - baldfat 10y ago
      Come on it was funny.
- Cthulhu_ 10y ago
  Non-benign bacteria used to not be resistant to antibiotics, too.
  - planteen 10y ago
    NVM, deleted
    - euyyn 10y ago
      > That's not true. >> These genes may be transferred from non-disease-causing bacteria to those that do cause disease It looks like it's true.

lojack 10y ago

Forgive me in my ignorance of how antibacterials work, but wouldn't an equally plausible explanation be that these bacteria's simply haven't developed characteristics that modern antibacterial drugs target?

300bps 10y ago
The article was more click bait than science. Pretty disappointing coming from NPR.
mrob 10y ago
That might be true for narrow-spectrum antibiotics, but broad-spectrum antibiotics target fundamental features that evolved very early so they're universal in bacteria, eg. beta-lactams such as penicillin target the enzymes that bacteria use to make their cell walls. In this case resistance occurs by attacking the antibiotic itself, producing extra enzyme so there's some spare, or tweaking the enzyme so the antibiotic can't harm it. It would be a much bigger story if bacteria were found with a completely different method of cell wall construction.
Brockenstein 10y ago
Well they sensitive to man-made antibiotics which by definition are modern antibotic drugs, and substances they've had no exposure to. But it has resistance to many naturally occurring anti-biotics, which would suggest some exposure to develop resistance. And there's probably some telltale differences between acquired resistance and natural immunity because your structure is such that you're not vulnerable. I think if you had more knowledge about the subject you'd understand how your idea isn't as plausible as it sounds.
novia 10y ago
The idea is plausible, but testable. I am sure they've gone in and sequenced the DNA in this bacteria's genome and found the genes which confer antibiotic resistance, in addition to doing the lab tests showing that it can survive exposure. DNA sequencing is pretty much standard procedure now when looking at previously unknown organisms. Think about it. How would they even know that this organism is something new without comparing its DNA to the other DNA samples microbiologists have collected? If they hadn't done this, it would be a non-story.

vosper 10y ago

> "It changed our understanding because it means antibiotic resistance didn't evolve in the clinic through our use. The resistance is hardwired," she says. But if that was true wouldn't bacteria always have been resistant to these "natural" antibiotics (the majority of those that we use, according to this article) and this they never would have been effective in the first place? And if that's true, how was this built-in resistance suddenly switched on to the extent that scientists are now talking about a future where bacteria we could easily treat a few decades ago will be unstoppable? I think either I'm missing some important details, or this article is.

Brockenstein 10y ago
Well for starters you can't use this bacteria and all bacteria interchangeably. Secondly bacteria of all sorts live in different eco systems. But all bacteria doesn't live in every eco system. They're not subject to the same stresses, attacks, and naturally don't develop immunity to things they're not exposed to and all bacteria aren't always exposed to everything... You're kind of going all or nothing for millions of species of bacteria and that's obviously overly simplistic. You might as well make the argument that because cheetahs can run 60mph, so shouldn't all vertebrates be capable of that?
- takingflac 10y ago
  I would think that having a resistance an antibiotic meant that a bacteria was losing out on a different advantage. This is why resistant bacteria only exist in places where having the resistance, hospitals etc., is more beneficial than what it lost to get the resistance. For example if a cheetah developed a larger body at the cost of speed. It wouldn't survive as well unless there was a benefit to being larger but slower.
Cthulhu_ 10y ago
As the article hints at, it depends on environment; this particular bacteria was in a very hostile environment, where it had to compete with other bacteria for nutrients. Outside, there's enough room and food for everyone, so there was less of a need to develop resistances.

lettergram 10y ago

Probably just evolved to be resistant to penicillin, either it never evolved to be susceptible or it evolved to not be susceptible. In either case, the cave environment had something to do with it. I wouldn't suspect this is too news worthy.

lettergram 10y ago

filoeleven 10y ago

A bit off topic, but Lechuguilla Cave, where the bacteria was found, is an incredible sight. Large portions of Planet Earth: Caves was filmed there, and since access to the cave is extremely restricted it's the only way most of us will get to see it. The formations they found there are breathtaking. If memory serves me correctly, it's also where they found what they dubbed "snotcicles", giant bacteria colonies that had grown so big they were dripping from the ceiling, and whose growth was fueled by strong acidic compounds. I don't know if that was this bacteria or something a bit more garden-variety, but it just goes to show you what kind of wild stuff happens in tiny, sealed-off ecosystems.