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The opposite view: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/sugar-issues.shtml http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/sugar-issues.shtml . Ray Peat's argument is that

The opposite view: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/sugar-issues.shtml http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/sugar-issues.shtml . Ray Peat's argument is that polyunsaturated fats are the real culprit, and if you look at most sugar laden foods these days, it's difficult to find any that don't also contain a decent amount of PUFA.

taeric 10y ago
Shifting from one culprit to the next would merely further a witch hunt. I in no way want to suppress the search for evidence in this. However, evidence is pretty high that we could cut sugar and have zero negative effects. The largest cut would be in what people are drinking nowdays. (It is truly baffling to see how much sugar the average person consumes from soda.) Consider, unless you are drinking multiple glasses a day of coke, you are probably actually quite low in your weekly intake of sugar compared to the average.
- greywolve 10y ago
  Sugar is just an empty calorie, there's plenty of studies that also show that it has no real net negative effect. The problem is when your diet consists primarily of empty calories, then obviously you are going to have health problems, from lack of nutrients. If your diet is nutrient rich, a bit of extra sugar will not do anything bad.
  - EugeneOZ 10y ago
    at least try to google "sugar calories".
  - greywolve 10y ago
    You should always google the opposite view points too, and not just consider the main stream opinion on things. There are forums of people that take the opposite viewpoint, and do very well too. It's best to be open minded. We don't have everything figured out yet.
    - cholantesh 10y ago
      There are forums of people that take the viewpoint that the world is a disc and that the media is run by shapeshifting lizards, too. That doesn't mean they deserve to be taken seriously.
      - cyphar 10y ago
        You really skipped several steps between "people who think that excess sugar is bad for you" and "flat-earthers".
        cholantesh 10y ago
        >"people who think that excess sugar is bad for you" Parent is referring to people who think polyunsaturated fats are bad for you, though. And what I'm taking issue with is the argument that because there exist 'entire forums' of people who have accepted a claim, their views should be given credence.
  - cyphar 10y ago
    I don't think that diabetes is caused by a lack of nutrients.
  - taeric 10y ago
    And a calorie is just a proxy for energy stored. It will certainly correlate with energy related metrics. Just like kloc will correlate with code related metrics. However, if you are in position to measure other items, I'd highly suggest it.
  - croon 10y ago
    Sorry, but you are the one that tripped the final wire for me: What exactly is an "empty calorie"? What metric is it low on? It has calories. What is it empty of?
    - cyphar 10y ago
      "Nutrients" (according to the parent). The hypothesis being that diabetes is caused by lack of nutrients. But this is clearly false because impoverished countries don't have disproportionately high amounts of diabetes. Not to mention that AFAIK the jury is out on sugar causing diabetes.
    - overgard 10y ago
      So, a "calorie" is just a measurement of energy produced when something is burned. Like, really, that's it. Proteins have specific uses, and some of them can't be produced by your body, so that would be an example of a "non-empty" calorie. Same thing with lipids. Carbohydrates are, essentially, sugar. (Once they're broken down). Obviously you can use them for energy, and they're useful in that regard, but once you have "enough" carbohydrates to fuel whatever activity you're doing adding more just causes your body to convert them into fat. So, that's why they're considered "emtpy" -- they have no nutritional value other than being converted to glucose.
      - croon 10y ago
        Your answer is informative, so I can't fault you for that, but I already know this. I asked because "empty calories" is (almost) always uttered in the same breath as either 1) no real information or 2) comparing to other carbohydrates. I do however take issue with this: > but once you have "enough" carbohydrates to fuel whatever activity you're doing adding more just causes your body to convert them into fat. So, that's why they're considered "emtpy" That's true with any calorie. By that definition any calorie you're not using is empty.
        overgard 10y ago
        Well sure, eating too much of any nutrient is not great. Think of it this way, if you just ate a bag of sugar everyday you'd have energy but be malnourished. Hence why theyre empty.
justinator 10y ago
> I eat plenty of sugar, and I'm in decent shape: You can't tell the damage of a poor diet (or other maladies), simply by looking at videos. You're also fairly young. A poor diet wrecks your health in a cumulative way. I'm not saying your diet is poor (I have little data about your diet), I'm just saying it's up in the air with knowing that you eat, "plenty of sugar", and you IG yourself doing calisthenics. Would you agree?
- greywolve 10y ago
  I'm not actually that young, I'm 33. (I also haven't been training very long, about 2 years now) I agree though, I am a sample size of one. There are forums of people who follow Ray Peat's ideas, and some do consume large amounts of sugar, and do really well.
  - justinator 10y ago
    But think about when people succumb to problems because of poor diet choices: it's not 33. It's more like 65, for heart disease or 45 for Type 2 Diabetes. Not that you CAN'T see differences, in some instances. I look at former classmates from college and they look horrible when I compare myself (and they know it) - but it's mostly from abuse of alchohol, which I think we can all agree will age you. > There are forums of people who follow Ray Peat's ideas, and some do consume large amounts of sugar, and do really well. How are their teeth?
    - sean_patel 10y ago
      > How are their teeth? This.
    - greywolve 10y ago
      I haven't heard any reports of people getting teeth issues, assuming they actually look after them. The community there is quite skeptical, and very much for experimenting on themselves, having blood tests taken, etc. Here's another article that explains the alternative view point on this: http://digestiblekitchen.com/2013/10/confused-about-sugar-one-year-since-i-brought-sugar-back/ http://digestiblekitchen.com/2013/10/confused-about-sugar-on... Note that I'm not recommending processed foods either. I actually think it's much harder to eat lots of sugar, if you are only consuming it in non-processed foods. But then is it sugar itself that is the problem?
EugeneOZ 10y ago
I have to say not every girl have so many selfie-videos, so it was surprising to see so many from men.
- EugeneOZ 10y ago
  really, narcissism sometimes is a sign of more significant issues.
  - greywolve 10y ago
    There's a difference between 'selfies' and keeping a record of your training towards certain physical skills. I follow a number of people who I feel inspired by, on IG, that share similar videos, and I like to return the favour. If I can do this stuff, then anyone can, I'm not naturally inclined that way. So my goal is to inspire. Plus my skill level is still beginner basically, compared to what some other people can do. :)

taeric 10y ago

Shifting from one culprit to the next would merely further a witch hunt. I in no way want to suppress the search for evidence in this. However, evidence is pretty high that we could cut sugar and have zero negative effects. The largest cut would be in what people are drinking nowdays. (It is truly baffling to see how much sugar the average person consumes from soda.) Consider, unless you are drinking multiple glasses a day of coke, you are probably actually quite low in your weekly intake of sugar compared to the average.

greywolve 10y ago
Sugar is just an empty calorie, there's plenty of studies that also show that it has no real net negative effect. The problem is when your diet consists primarily of empty calories, then obviously you are going to have health problems, from lack of nutrients. If your diet is nutrient rich, a bit of extra sugar will not do anything bad.
- EugeneOZ 10y ago
  at least try to google "sugar calories".
- greywolve 10y ago
  You should always google the opposite view points too, and not just consider the main stream opinion on things. There are forums of people that take the opposite viewpoint, and do very well too. It's best to be open minded. We don't have everything figured out yet.
  - cholantesh 10y ago
    There are forums of people that take the viewpoint that the world is a disc and that the media is run by shapeshifting lizards, too. That doesn't mean they deserve to be taken seriously.
    - cyphar 10y ago
      You really skipped several steps between "people who think that excess sugar is bad for you" and "flat-earthers".
      - cholantesh 10y ago
        >"people who think that excess sugar is bad for you" Parent is referring to people who think polyunsaturated fats are bad for you, though. And what I'm taking issue with is the argument that because there exist 'entire forums' of people who have accepted a claim, their views should be given credence.
- cyphar 10y ago
  I don't think that diabetes is caused by a lack of nutrients.
- taeric 10y ago
  And a calorie is just a proxy for energy stored. It will certainly correlate with energy related metrics. Just like kloc will correlate with code related metrics. However, if you are in position to measure other items, I'd highly suggest it.
- croon 10y ago
  Sorry, but you are the one that tripped the final wire for me: What exactly is an "empty calorie"? What metric is it low on? It has calories. What is it empty of?
  - cyphar 10y ago
    "Nutrients" (according to the parent). The hypothesis being that diabetes is caused by lack of nutrients. But this is clearly false because impoverished countries don't have disproportionately high amounts of diabetes. Not to mention that AFAIK the jury is out on sugar causing diabetes.
  - overgard 10y ago
    So, a "calorie" is just a measurement of energy produced when something is burned. Like, really, that's it. Proteins have specific uses, and some of them can't be produced by your body, so that would be an example of a "non-empty" calorie. Same thing with lipids. Carbohydrates are, essentially, sugar. (Once they're broken down). Obviously you can use them for energy, and they're useful in that regard, but once you have "enough" carbohydrates to fuel whatever activity you're doing adding more just causes your body to convert them into fat. So, that's why they're considered "emtpy" -- they have no nutritional value other than being converted to glucose.
    - croon 10y ago
      Your answer is informative, so I can't fault you for that, but I already know this. I asked because "empty calories" is (almost) always uttered in the same breath as either 1) no real information or 2) comparing to other carbohydrates. I do however take issue with this: > but once you have "enough" carbohydrates to fuel whatever activity you're doing adding more just causes your body to convert them into fat. So, that's why they're considered "emtpy" That's true with any calorie. By that definition any calorie you're not using is empty.
      - overgard 10y ago
        Well sure, eating too much of any nutrient is not great. Think of it this way, if you just ate a bag of sugar everyday you'd have energy but be malnourished. Hence why theyre empty.

justinator 10y ago

> I eat plenty of sugar, and I'm in decent shape: You can't tell the damage of a poor diet (or other maladies), simply by looking at videos. You're also fairly young. A poor diet wrecks your health in a cumulative way. I'm not saying your diet is poor (I have little data about your diet), I'm just saying it's up in the air with knowing that you eat, "plenty of sugar", and you IG yourself doing calisthenics. Would you agree?

greywolve 10y ago
I'm not actually that young, I'm 33. (I also haven't been training very long, about 2 years now) I agree though, I am a sample size of one. There are forums of people who follow Ray Peat's ideas, and some do consume large amounts of sugar, and do really well.
- justinator 10y ago
  But think about when people succumb to problems because of poor diet choices: it's not 33. It's more like 65, for heart disease or 45 for Type 2 Diabetes. Not that you CAN'T see differences, in some instances. I look at former classmates from college and they look horrible when I compare myself (and they know it) - but it's mostly from abuse of alchohol, which I think we can all agree will age you. > There are forums of people who follow Ray Peat's ideas, and some do consume large amounts of sugar, and do really well. How are their teeth?
  - sean_patel 10y ago
    > How are their teeth? This.
  - greywolve 10y ago
    I haven't heard any reports of people getting teeth issues, assuming they actually look after them. The community there is quite skeptical, and very much for experimenting on themselves, having blood tests taken, etc. Here's another article that explains the alternative view point on this: http://digestiblekitchen.com/2013/10/confused-about-sugar-one-year-since-i-brought-sugar-back/ http://digestiblekitchen.com/2013/10/confused-about-sugar-on... Note that I'm not recommending processed foods either. I actually think it's much harder to eat lots of sugar, if you are only consuming it in non-processed foods. But then is it sugar itself that is the problem?

EugeneOZ 10y ago

I have to say not every girl have so many selfie-videos, so it was surprising to see so many from men.

EugeneOZ 10y ago
really, narcissism sometimes is a sign of more significant issues.
- greywolve 10y ago
  There's a difference between 'selfies' and keeping a record of your training towards certain physical skills. I follow a number of people who I feel inspired by, on IG, that share similar videos, and I like to return the favour. If I can do this stuff, then anyone can, I'm not naturally inclined that way. So my goal is to inspire. Plus my skill level is still beginner basically, compared to what some other people can do. :)