13 ms·

Linux on the Mac – state of the union

208 points by ah- 10y ago

fbreduc 10y ago
can't even put linux on a pc, how gonna do a mac?
- choward 10y ago
  Seriously?
sciurus 10y ago
Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13126878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13126878
toodlebunions 10y ago
>>> "the realization that Apple no longer caters equally to casual and professional customers as it had in the past [YouTube video]. Instead, the company appears to be following an iOS-focused, margin-driven strategy that essentially relegates professionals to a fringe group." Ouch
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  Except this is largely based on mythology. People seem to equate "pro user" with "software developer" (and no other roles/occupations at all), and invent a fictitious history in which the Macbook Pro was jumping up and down on stage shouting "DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS!" Except that never happened. The perceived dev-friendliness of the Macbook Pro was a historical accident: it turns out that when you build something for use cases like audio/video engineering (which overlap a bit in their hardware needs with use cases like compiling software), and happen due to quirks of your company's history to be shipping a Unix-y operating system, developers will like it. But aside from providing tools to build applications for Apple's own platforms, the MBP and other Mac hardware wasn't deliberately catered to developers. Meanwhile, the audio/video-engineer types still seem to like the MBP; the reviews I've read from them are positive about the touch bar and accepting of the fact that USB C is the future. It's just the developers -- and largely developers who hated Apple's products anyway and likely will never interact with the new MBP -- who say that this is proof that Apple has completely abandoned "pro" users.
  - rev12 10y ago
    >>> "Meanwhile, the audio/video-engineer types still seem to like the MBP" I can't speak to the professional video world, but that's absolutely false in the professional audio world. My experience is in the world of composition and sound design; the attitude towards using Mac for that shifted a while back, due to the lackluster and non-existent upgrades to the Mac Pro. No one in the professional audio world that I know, or anything that I have read, has suggested they are liking the new laptop (which wouldn't get much use from them anyway).
    - abritinthebay 10y ago
      Well if we're sharing annecdata: literally everyone I know who works in audio would give up their Mac only on death. That covers several DJs, Producers, VO Artists, Audio Editors, and quite a few Sound Designers...
      - WWLink 10y ago
        If we're sharing annecdata: Almost every programmer I know owns a Mac and loves it, and prefers working on them. Except me. My employer doesn't let me use my own computer and refuses to buy me one.
        kagamine 10y ago
        > My employer doesn't let me use my own computer and refuses to buy me one. ? Then what are you using?
        coldtea 10y ago
        Refuses to buy them a Mac obviously. As in "doesn't let me use my own mac and refuses to buy me a mac of his own". So, parent is using the computer the employer doesn't refuse to buy them, a PC.
        kagamine 10y ago
- matt4077 10y ago
  Apart from being wrong, that narrative doesn't even make sense as an intro to this article: the criticism was directed at the new MBP hardware – so why would these super-professional uber-users buy it and then replace the OS? (Not to mention that, if I understood it correctly, Linux currently doesn't even support the keyboard, and is otherwise probably in its usual desktop mode of "WLAN, Sound, or functioning sleep – choose any two".
  - prodigal_erik 10y ago
    The article talked about how Linux supports several models, not just the latest one. If I owned an older Macbook but now regarded the product line to be doomed, I'd want to know how painful it would be to start migrating to a different platform on my current hardware.
  - WWLink 10y ago
    I wouldn't necessarily blame the "WLAN, sound, or sleep" thing on linux. I'd blame that on cheap parts manufacturers that refuse to distribute open source drivers for fear of releasing company secrets and lack of profit margins to operate on.
    - DasIch 10y ago
      Or it could be that Apple just really doesn't care and most Apple customers don't either.
    - dispose13432 10y ago
      >I wouldn't necessarily blame the "WLAN, sound, or sleep" thing on linux. I'd blame that on cheap parts manufacturers that refuse to distribute open source drivers for fear of releasing company secrets and lack of profit margins to operate on. I don't understand why would anyone not open-source their drivers? What's NVIDIA's secret sauce? Being able to build great silicon. What's Intel's secret sauce? Being able to build great silicon. What's Samsung's secret sauce? Being able to put together great silicon. So let's say tomorrow Nvidia open-sources all their drivers? So now you know that which registers do you use to shade what. So now what's AMD going to do? Copy the interface? It's already copied. Most users use standard OpenGL/DirectX to communicate with their board. I mean look at Intel. You practically know what's what there. You can make an OS on (at least older) Intel chips without drivers. Did it help anyone compete?
- hashkb 10y ago
  If you just realized this year that they are entertainment focused and devs/pros are a secondary concern, you haven't been paying attention. Since 10.6 when dual full screen was removed I say the shark has been jumped.
- manyxcxi 10y ago
  What I don't get from the article, if I'm pissed about the hardware change why am I trying to run Linux on it/my old one? A) You keep your old laptop and continue to run macOS for as long as possible B) You're shopping for a new laptop and don't buy Apple, then run Linux If you keep your old hardware why run Linux on it? I've been looking at who else is out there are making decent laptops that run Linux well (open to suggestions, especially if they have more than 16GB RAM), as I have a feeling my 2015 Retina will be my last MBP. The hard part for me is that I've gotten used to a certain look and feel with the MBP. That nice solid, rigid body, and the display hinge that just stays. When I pick up a ThinkPad and it creaks and flexes when I open the display or casually pick it up by the corner it makes my skin crawl.
  - joshlemer 10y ago
    Have you taken a look at the Razer Blade? It is basically equivalent to the Macbook pro's hardware in every way, except black, an i7, a touchscreen, and an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060, and a bit less expensive. I just got one. I haven't put Linux on it yet, but I'm pretty blown away with the hardware.
    - artursapek 10y ago
      Wow, that looks like an MBPro clone. I've never heard of this company. I wonder if its machines work well with Linux?
      - tkxxx7 10y ago
        There was an article last week stating they don't support Linux out of the box (or at least not Ubuntu), but I don't remember details regarding how much work is required to get it running.
        deadbunny 10y ago
        The Arch wiki has a whole load of details on getting one up and running[1]. These instruction will usually translate between any other (up to date) distro with a bit of translation. 1. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/razer#2016_version_.28Razer_Blade_.26_Razer_Blade_Stealth.29 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/razer#2016_version_.28R...
rocky1138 10y ago
I wish to thank the dedicated people who make this happen. I'm forced to use Apple hardware at work, but thankfully can run whatever OS I choose. Here's to the crazy ones.
- augustl 10y ago
  > Here's to the crazy ones. That one hit home.. Based on my lack of options (Windows sucks, macOS is OK but the hardware sucks, Linux lacks a desktop ecosystem) I feel just like a crazy one, a misfit, the ones Apple addressed in that legendary ad.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - verandaguy 10y ago
    >Linux lacks a desktop ecosystem Granted, I'm more of a terminal power user, but what's missing (honest question)? GNOME and KDE are both very refined and mature, and there are plenty more stable, if a bit less full-featured DEs. There's the LibreOffice suite, which is stable, well-maintained, and feature-rich. VLC is arguably an extremely stable and full-featured media player with Linux support. Firefox and Chromium are both widely available on Linux. Thunderbird and Slack ship for Linux, too. I can scarcely think of other software you might need to run on Linux.
    - augustl 10y ago
      I was thinking more in terms of an ecosystem for desktop app developers. Let's say you want to make a game for Linux. How do you package it? Do you have to make RPMs, debs and/or something else? Do you rely on dependencies available on the system, or do you build a binary with all dependencies statically linked? Do you care about inclusion in the package managers for the various distros? What do you use for Audio? You might want to use Pulse, but what if the user does not have Pulse installed? What if your game includes a launcher with a login form etc, do you choose QT or GTK? Do you have to test your game on the top 3 popupar distros? Top 5? And so on.
maratc 10y ago
The basis of this article makes no sense. What developers love about Macs is the OS and the nice integration between OS and hardware. Even if you hate the new hardware, it makes sense to continue juicing your current one and see what comes along next year; it makes zero sense to install Linux on a fringe hardware (Mac).
- codemusings 10y ago
  I guess it depends on what kind of developers you think of. Unless you're developing macOS or iOS Software why bother with an inferior software eco system? Brew is a hot mess. MacPorts is slow as fuck.
  - l1k 10y ago
    Personally I've been using fink for >12 years now, I enjoy being able to use the familiar apt-get and dpkg to manage packages on macOS: http://finkproject.org/ http://finkproject.org/ I even backported the then-current version to MacOS X 10.4 (Tiger) last year. :-) https://github.com/l1k/fink/commits/branch_0_38_tenfour https://github.com/l1k/fink/commits/branch_0_38_tenfour
  - maratc 10y ago
    I develop backend components that run on Linux servers. The editors, the terminal, the debuggers on Mac OS are pretty good for me. Brew works just fine for my line of work.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- thomasfl 10y ago
  If I'd wanted Linux, I would prefer a windows laptop with flipable touch screen. The Lenovo Yoga would have been great if they'd only support Linux: http://venturebeat.com/2016/09/21/lenovo-confirms-that-linux-wont-work-on-yoga-900-and-900s-laptops/ http://venturebeat.com/2016/09/21/lenovo-confirms-that-linux...
  - 10y ago
gurkendoktor 10y ago
Sadly, I haven't heard/read anything good about running Linux on the iMac 5K, which I'm tempted to buy when/if it is updated in 2017. I don't understand Apple's vision at all, and it wouldn't surprise me if they ruined macOS in the next five years. Being able to install Fedora in that case would really buy me some peace of mind.
- l1k 10y ago
  There was a thread on dri-devel a year ago: https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2015-October/093294.html https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2015-Octobe... Back then the probed panel resolution (EDID retrieved by radeon) was 3840x2160, which doesn't make any sense because the panel actually has 5120x2880. It's unclear if this was because of missing/broken MST support in radeon (Multistream Transport) or if Apple used some proprietary mechanism to squeeze the panel resolution in a single stream transport. You may want to contact the person who started that thread (Andreas Tunek) and ask if the situation has improved with contemporary kernels.
  - JoelTheSuperior 10y ago
    If memory serves Apple didn't actually use MST for the 5k iMac and instead developed a custom timing controller which allowed them to get the 5k resolution working over a single stream. It's the same reason why, for example, Windows sees it as a 3840x2160 panel as well.
    - gurkendoktor 10y ago
      Oh, I wasn't aware that Windows was affected too. Apparently it took Apple some time to bring 5K support to Boot Camp for 2014 iMac model [1]. I guess I'll wait for Apple to actually announce new desktops before I seriously look into the driver situation... [1] http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/bootcamp-update-5k-windows-on-all-5k-imacs.1939481/ http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/bootcamp-update-5k-windo...
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
ttflee 10y ago
Why not adopt the Windows Subsystem for Linux (i.e., Ubuntu and bash.exe) strategy?
- artursapek 10y ago
  I bought a Thinkpad recently and was intending to use that for day-to-day development. It was pretty good but important parts of tmux just didn't work, so I just gave up and installed Linux on the machine (which I'm enjoying a lot).
- nickjj 10y ago
  It needs a lot more time before it's usable beyond demo use cases. If you're interested I wrote all about it[0] when trying to change my development environment recently: [0]: https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/i-almost-rage-bought-a-macbook-pro https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/i-almost-rage-bought-a-macboo...
- TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
  Personally, WSL's existence temps me to touch Windows again in future if there's a particularly attractive machine. But, well, Windows with WSL is still Windows. Much like Linux with a hypothetical flawless version of WINE would still be Linux. The desktop experience is still… poor.
s_dev 10y ago
If Linux could utilise battery as well as MacOS or OS X I'd switch in a heartbeat. Obviously Apple have some proprietary battery magic as neither Linux, BSD or Windows can seem to get 50% of the battery life out of MacBook Pros and this is a significant cost on a laptop - otherwise dual booting for me will remain the best compromise.
- l1k 10y ago
  First of all, macOS power manages devices too aggressively: I've noticed that if I ssh from another computer into my MacBook Pro (booted into macOS and connected to wired Ethernet), the connection becomes unresponsive after a few seconds of inactivity. I have to ping from the MacBook Pro to a machine on the LAN to make the ssh connection responsive again. It looks like macOS suspends the BCM 57765 Ethernet controller and doesn't resume it upon reception of packets from the LAN. Apple seems to consider macOS purely a client OS from which one ssh's to the outside world but not the other way round. Second, there's no proprietary battery magic in macOS, as stated in the article I already achieve 10.5W idle power consumption on my Ivy Bridge MacBook Pro with discrete GPU, Thunderbolt and AirPort suspended, wheras macOS achieves 7W. I've noticed a GPE in the ACPI tables for the Firewire controller which presumably signals hotplug when the controller is asleep. We're not using that on Linux yet, we keep the Firewire controller active all the time. Adding that would probably save another 1W. So we're inching ever closer to macOS levels of battery life, and I think eventually we may be able to surpass it because of the sophisticated CPU pstate management that Intel developers continue to tweak with every new release.
  - navait 10y ago
    > Apple seems to consider macOS purely a client OS from which one ssh's to the outside world but not the other way round. I'm not knowledgeable enough, but this seems a pretty reasonable assumption for 90% of use cases. And if this assumption holds, is it fair to say. I think what you're trying to say is "First of all, macOS power manages devices too aggressively for me" > It looks like macOS suspends the BCM 57765 Ethernet controller and doesn't resume it upon reception of packets from the LAN. What are the trade-offs of this decision? Could apple not do this and not change the battery life for anyone? Or would it benefit this case and adversely affect other cases?
verandaguy 10y ago
I want to extend thanks to the diligent developers and engineers doing work on this. I'm running Arch on a 2012 Retina MBP with a GNOME desktop, and ignoring the shortened battery life -- which in my situation is generally possible -- this is an amazingly streamlined and refined experience. I'd gladly contribute to the work being done if I had the background, (which I'm currently working on)!
yuhong 10y ago
For really old Intel Macs there is the hack of hardcoded framebuffer addresses, which they did instead of supporting UGA.
scarface74 10y ago
Serious question. What advantage is there to running Linux on a Mac? OS X is already certified Unix. Is there any open source software that you can run on Linux that you can't run on OS X?

208 points by ah- 10y ago

fbreduc 10y ago

can't even put linux on a pc, how gonna do a mac?

choward 10y ago
Seriously?

sciurus 10y ago

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13126878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13126878

toodlebunions 10y ago

>>> "the realization that Apple no longer caters equally to casual and professional customers as it had in the past [YouTube video]. Instead, the company appears to be following an iOS-focused, margin-driven strategy that essentially relegates professionals to a fringe group." Ouch

ubernostrum 10y ago
Except this is largely based on mythology. People seem to equate "pro user" with "software developer" (and no other roles/occupations at all), and invent a fictitious history in which the Macbook Pro was jumping up and down on stage shouting "DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS!" Except that never happened. The perceived dev-friendliness of the Macbook Pro was a historical accident: it turns out that when you build something for use cases like audio/video engineering (which overlap a bit in their hardware needs with use cases like compiling software), and happen due to quirks of your company's history to be shipping a Unix-y operating system, developers will like it. But aside from providing tools to build applications for Apple's own platforms, the MBP and other Mac hardware wasn't deliberately catered to developers. Meanwhile, the audio/video-engineer types still seem to like the MBP; the reviews I've read from them are positive about the touch bar and accepting of the fact that USB C is the future. It's just the developers -- and largely developers who hated Apple's products anyway and likely will never interact with the new MBP -- who say that this is proof that Apple has completely abandoned "pro" users.
- rev12 10y ago
  >>> "Meanwhile, the audio/video-engineer types still seem to like the MBP" I can't speak to the professional video world, but that's absolutely false in the professional audio world. My experience is in the world of composition and sound design; the attitude towards using Mac for that shifted a while back, due to the lackluster and non-existent upgrades to the Mac Pro. No one in the professional audio world that I know, or anything that I have read, has suggested they are liking the new laptop (which wouldn't get much use from them anyway).
  - abritinthebay 10y ago
    Well if we're sharing annecdata: literally everyone I know who works in audio would give up their Mac only on death. That covers several DJs, Producers, VO Artists, Audio Editors, and quite a few Sound Designers...
    - WWLink 10y ago
      If we're sharing annecdata: Almost every programmer I know owns a Mac and loves it, and prefers working on them. Except me. My employer doesn't let me use my own computer and refuses to buy me one.
      - kagamine 10y ago
        > My employer doesn't let me use my own computer and refuses to buy me one. ? Then what are you using?
        coldtea 10y ago
        Refuses to buy them a Mac obviously. As in "doesn't let me use my own mac and refuses to buy me a mac of his own". So, parent is using the computer the employer doesn't refuse to buy them, a PC.
        kagamine 10y ago
matt4077 10y ago
Apart from being wrong, that narrative doesn't even make sense as an intro to this article: the criticism was directed at the new MBP hardware – so why would these super-professional uber-users buy it and then replace the OS? (Not to mention that, if I understood it correctly, Linux currently doesn't even support the keyboard, and is otherwise probably in its usual desktop mode of "WLAN, Sound, or functioning sleep – choose any two".
- prodigal_erik 10y ago
  The article talked about how Linux supports several models, not just the latest one. If I owned an older Macbook but now regarded the product line to be doomed, I'd want to know how painful it would be to start migrating to a different platform on my current hardware.
- WWLink 10y ago
  I wouldn't necessarily blame the "WLAN, sound, or sleep" thing on linux. I'd blame that on cheap parts manufacturers that refuse to distribute open source drivers for fear of releasing company secrets and lack of profit margins to operate on.
  - DasIch 10y ago
    Or it could be that Apple just really doesn't care and most Apple customers don't either.
  - dispose13432 10y ago
    >I wouldn't necessarily blame the "WLAN, sound, or sleep" thing on linux. I'd blame that on cheap parts manufacturers that refuse to distribute open source drivers for fear of releasing company secrets and lack of profit margins to operate on. I don't understand why would anyone not open-source their drivers? What's NVIDIA's secret sauce? Being able to build great silicon. What's Intel's secret sauce? Being able to build great silicon. What's Samsung's secret sauce? Being able to put together great silicon. So let's say tomorrow Nvidia open-sources all their drivers? So now you know that which registers do you use to shade what. So now what's AMD going to do? Copy the interface? It's already copied. Most users use standard OpenGL/DirectX to communicate with their board. I mean look at Intel. You practically know what's what there. You can make an OS on (at least older) Intel chips without drivers. Did it help anyone compete?
hashkb 10y ago
If you just realized this year that they are entertainment focused and devs/pros are a secondary concern, you haven't been paying attention. Since 10.6 when dual full screen was removed I say the shark has been jumped.
manyxcxi 10y ago
What I don't get from the article, if I'm pissed about the hardware change why am I trying to run Linux on it/my old one? A) You keep your old laptop and continue to run macOS for as long as possible B) You're shopping for a new laptop and don't buy Apple, then run Linux If you keep your old hardware why run Linux on it? I've been looking at who else is out there are making decent laptops that run Linux well (open to suggestions, especially if they have more than 16GB RAM), as I have a feeling my 2015 Retina will be my last MBP. The hard part for me is that I've gotten used to a certain look and feel with the MBP. That nice solid, rigid body, and the display hinge that just stays. When I pick up a ThinkPad and it creaks and flexes when I open the display or casually pick it up by the corner it makes my skin crawl.
- joshlemer 10y ago
  Have you taken a look at the Razer Blade? It is basically equivalent to the Macbook pro's hardware in every way, except black, an i7, a touchscreen, and an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060, and a bit less expensive. I just got one. I haven't put Linux on it yet, but I'm pretty blown away with the hardware.
  - artursapek 10y ago
    Wow, that looks like an MBPro clone. I've never heard of this company. I wonder if its machines work well with Linux?
    - tkxxx7 10y ago
      There was an article last week stating they don't support Linux out of the box (or at least not Ubuntu), but I don't remember details regarding how much work is required to get it running.
      - deadbunny 10y ago
        The Arch wiki has a whole load of details on getting one up and running[1]. These instruction will usually translate between any other (up to date) distro with a bit of translation. 1. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/razer#2016_version_.28Razer_Blade_.26_Razer_Blade_Stealth.29 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/razer#2016_version_.28R...

rocky1138 10y ago

I wish to thank the dedicated people who make this happen. I'm forced to use Apple hardware at work, but thankfully can run whatever OS I choose. Here's to the crazy ones.

augustl 10y ago
> Here's to the crazy ones. That one hit home.. Based on my lack of options (Windows sucks, macOS is OK but the hardware sucks, Linux lacks a desktop ecosystem) I feel just like a crazy one, a misfit, the ones Apple addressed in that legendary ad.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- verandaguy 10y ago
  >Linux lacks a desktop ecosystem Granted, I'm more of a terminal power user, but what's missing (honest question)? GNOME and KDE are both very refined and mature, and there are plenty more stable, if a bit less full-featured DEs. There's the LibreOffice suite, which is stable, well-maintained, and feature-rich. VLC is arguably an extremely stable and full-featured media player with Linux support. Firefox and Chromium are both widely available on Linux. Thunderbird and Slack ship for Linux, too. I can scarcely think of other software you might need to run on Linux.
  - augustl 10y ago
    I was thinking more in terms of an ecosystem for desktop app developers. Let's say you want to make a game for Linux. How do you package it? Do you have to make RPMs, debs and/or something else? Do you rely on dependencies available on the system, or do you build a binary with all dependencies statically linked? Do you care about inclusion in the package managers for the various distros? What do you use for Audio? You might want to use Pulse, but what if the user does not have Pulse installed? What if your game includes a launcher with a login form etc, do you choose QT or GTK? Do you have to test your game on the top 3 popupar distros? Top 5? And so on.

maratc 10y ago

The basis of this article makes no sense. What developers love about Macs is the OS and the nice integration between OS and hardware. Even if you hate the new hardware, it makes sense to continue juicing your current one and see what comes along next year; it makes zero sense to install Linux on a fringe hardware (Mac).

codemusings 10y ago
I guess it depends on what kind of developers you think of. Unless you're developing macOS or iOS Software why bother with an inferior software eco system? Brew is a hot mess. MacPorts is slow as fuck.
- l1k 10y ago
  Personally I've been using fink for >12 years now, I enjoy being able to use the familiar apt-get and dpkg to manage packages on macOS: http://finkproject.org/ http://finkproject.org/ I even backported the then-current version to MacOS X 10.4 (Tiger) last year. :-) https://github.com/l1k/fink/commits/branch_0_38_tenfour https://github.com/l1k/fink/commits/branch_0_38_tenfour
- maratc 10y ago
  I develop backend components that run on Linux servers. The editors, the terminal, the debuggers on Mac OS are pretty good for me. Brew works just fine for my line of work.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
thomasfl 10y ago
If I'd wanted Linux, I would prefer a windows laptop with flipable touch screen. The Lenovo Yoga would have been great if they'd only support Linux: http://venturebeat.com/2016/09/21/lenovo-confirms-that-linux-wont-work-on-yoga-900-and-900s-laptops/ http://venturebeat.com/2016/09/21/lenovo-confirms-that-linux...
- 10y ago

gurkendoktor 10y ago

Sadly, I haven't heard/read anything good about running Linux on the iMac 5K, which I'm tempted to buy when/if it is updated in 2017. I don't understand Apple's vision at all, and it wouldn't surprise me if they ruined macOS in the next five years. Being able to install Fedora in that case would really buy me some peace of mind.

l1k 10y ago
There was a thread on dri-devel a year ago: https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2015-October/093294.html https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2015-Octobe... Back then the probed panel resolution (EDID retrieved by radeon) was 3840x2160, which doesn't make any sense because the panel actually has 5120x2880. It's unclear if this was because of missing/broken MST support in radeon (Multistream Transport) or if Apple used some proprietary mechanism to squeeze the panel resolution in a single stream transport. You may want to contact the person who started that thread (Andreas Tunek) and ask if the situation has improved with contemporary kernels.
- JoelTheSuperior 10y ago
  If memory serves Apple didn't actually use MST for the 5k iMac and instead developed a custom timing controller which allowed them to get the 5k resolution working over a single stream. It's the same reason why, for example, Windows sees it as a 3840x2160 panel as well.
  - gurkendoktor 10y ago
    Oh, I wasn't aware that Windows was affected too. Apparently it took Apple some time to bring 5K support to Boot Camp for 2014 iMac model [1]. I guess I'll wait for Apple to actually announce new desktops before I seriously look into the driver situation... [1] http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/bootcamp-update-5k-windows-on-all-5k-imacs.1939481/ http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/bootcamp-update-5k-windo...

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

ttflee 10y ago

Why not adopt the Windows Subsystem for Linux (i.e., Ubuntu and bash.exe) strategy?

artursapek 10y ago
I bought a Thinkpad recently and was intending to use that for day-to-day development. It was pretty good but important parts of tmux just didn't work, so I just gave up and installed Linux on the machine (which I'm enjoying a lot).
nickjj 10y ago
It needs a lot more time before it's usable beyond demo use cases. If you're interested I wrote all about it[0] when trying to change my development environment recently: [0]: https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/i-almost-rage-bought-a-macbook-pro https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/i-almost-rage-bought-a-macboo...
TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
Personally, WSL's existence temps me to touch Windows again in future if there's a particularly attractive machine. But, well, Windows with WSL is still Windows. Much like Linux with a hypothetical flawless version of WINE would still be Linux. The desktop experience is still… poor.

s_dev 10y ago

If Linux could utilise battery as well as MacOS or OS X I'd switch in a heartbeat. Obviously Apple have some proprietary battery magic as neither Linux, BSD or Windows can seem to get 50% of the battery life out of MacBook Pros and this is a significant cost on a laptop - otherwise dual booting for me will remain the best compromise.

l1k 10y ago
First of all, macOS power manages devices too aggressively: I've noticed that if I ssh from another computer into my MacBook Pro (booted into macOS and connected to wired Ethernet), the connection becomes unresponsive after a few seconds of inactivity. I have to ping from the MacBook Pro to a machine on the LAN to make the ssh connection responsive again. It looks like macOS suspends the BCM 57765 Ethernet controller and doesn't resume it upon reception of packets from the LAN. Apple seems to consider macOS purely a client OS from which one ssh's to the outside world but not the other way round. Second, there's no proprietary battery magic in macOS, as stated in the article I already achieve 10.5W idle power consumption on my Ivy Bridge MacBook Pro with discrete GPU, Thunderbolt and AirPort suspended, wheras macOS achieves 7W. I've noticed a GPE in the ACPI tables for the Firewire controller which presumably signals hotplug when the controller is asleep. We're not using that on Linux yet, we keep the Firewire controller active all the time. Adding that would probably save another 1W. So we're inching ever closer to macOS levels of battery life, and I think eventually we may be able to surpass it because of the sophisticated CPU pstate management that Intel developers continue to tweak with every new release.
- navait 10y ago
  > Apple seems to consider macOS purely a client OS from which one ssh's to the outside world but not the other way round. I'm not knowledgeable enough, but this seems a pretty reasonable assumption for 90% of use cases. And if this assumption holds, is it fair to say. I think what you're trying to say is "First of all, macOS power manages devices too aggressively for me" > It looks like macOS suspends the BCM 57765 Ethernet controller and doesn't resume it upon reception of packets from the LAN. What are the trade-offs of this decision? Could apple not do this and not change the battery life for anyone? Or would it benefit this case and adversely affect other cases?

verandaguy 10y ago

I want to extend thanks to the diligent developers and engineers doing work on this. I'm running Arch on a 2012 Retina MBP with a GNOME desktop, and ignoring the shortened battery life -- which in my situation is generally possible -- this is an amazingly streamlined and refined experience. I'd gladly contribute to the work being done if I had the background, (which I'm currently working on)!

yuhong 10y ago

For really old Intel Macs there is the hack of hardcoded framebuffer addresses, which they did instead of supporting UGA.

scarface74 10y ago

Serious question. What advantage is there to running Linux on a Mac? OS X is already certified Unix. Is there any open source software that you can run on Linux that you can't run on OS X?