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This also reinforces my view that most people don't have good critical thinking skills. I've taught college students who would believe pretty much anything they

by caf 10y ago

This also reinforces my view that most people don't have good critical thinking skills. I've taught college students who would believe pretty much anything they read online. Nobody ever taught them that they should verify what they read before they believe it. My favourite recent example of this was some bullshit article being shared on Facebook, making the claim that "this December has 5 Saturdays, 5 Sundays and 5 Mondays, something that only happens every 823 years" and going on to make some numeralogical claims on this basis. OK, so the "every 823 years" bit false, but I can see that you might need more than the average amount of mathematical intuition to see that right away - but the claim that this December has 5 Saturdays, Sundays and Mondays is easily disproved by glancing at a calendar! Yet this was repeatedly re-shared by people who didn't even do this tiny amount of fact-checking that they were easily equipped to do (the device that they were reading Facebook with certainly had a calendar function!).

xupybd 10y ago
Yeah I came across the same thing. It was re-shared from several years ago, I didn't bother to check that it was true on that year, but that was also a red flag that it was false.
candiodari 10y ago
The problem is that the reverse is also true. The US and EU Governments expect us to believe things that are obviously untrue. The biggest current example, I think is the Syrian proxy war. Obvious reality is that the US caused the war, and the EU and US and Saudi Arabia are supporting it, and specifically supporting the rebel side that is committing ethnic and religious cleansing. And Obama is supporting it, and so is the EU. Meanwhile Russia based tv channels put out videos of rebels with suicide vests, and American equipment ... what conclusion are we supposed to draw ? The message of both US and EU and even Saudi Arabia's government is that they simply want to protect the local population. Anyone with a passing knowledge of the middle east know that if there is one thing the rebels will not do, it's protect the local population. I call bullshit. The economy is another. I find the state of the US economy as reported by the US government, especially where it comes to employment, to be very hard to believe. It just does not seem to match what is obvious when visiting relatives. But employment is one thing. Inflation is very much not what it is claimed to be (and Obamacare is a big factor in that - which seems convenient), but it's not just that. Rent, fuel, public transport, ... all of it just doesn't match what my eyes see, inflation-wise. I see about 6% inflation in a big middle-American city in my expenses. And some numbers themselves are equally in "how can that possibly be true ?" territory. Goods transferred, energy usage, building activity, all of these numbers are supposed to represent core parts of the economy. They're all significantly down, in some cases very significantly, and yet ... the economy grows pretty much exactly at the rate the government predicted it would ... A bit less, but not much. The EU ... same thing. France's economy is growing at 0.5% per year ? I call bullshit. 5% per year drop ... now that might be true. But anyone higher than a 2% per year drop just isn't a realistic figure for France. Marseille definitely has it worse than that, and even Paris is stagnant or slightly better than stagnant at best. Nobody is happy. Hell, even the numbers out of China on the economy are highly suspect. Exports are way down, obviously, by the measurement of what is being shipped out of China. Given that this has had zero effect on production, which has in fact gone up, one of two things has happened : either the internal market transformation has already happened (hah !), or they ... are ... bullshit. Judging by what I hear from Chinese people who have visited relatives but live in Australia it is very much the bullshit situation. The state of the refugee problem in the EU is another one. You have the public news flow about nothing being wrong, about the EU just peacefully absorbing some refugees, no problem. And then you have the reality leaks through moments, which are in fact being repressed by the press, and sadly here I know that for a fact. Cars, hundreds every weekend, are being torched in every large French city. Entire neighborhoods are no-go zones. There are "demonstrations" on a monthly basis in pretty much every large city in Holland, Belgium, France and Germany. I've seen 5 of them. 5 ! I am not really there that often. The amount of looting during those demonstrations is absurd (ie. walking through the shopping street on the day after has them looking like a warzone). The security measures shops are taking in response are also very, very visible. And yet in the newspapers ... nothing. You have to look on fora to find these events. On occasion glimpses of reality break through, like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_S8eKMDlJk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_S8eKMDlJk, or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb3rNkkCAJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb3rNkkCAJY, or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbKS7tt6g-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbKS7tt6g-4 (note how Syrian they look by the way. Reality is there is no Syrian refugee problem. There is a Middle African refugee problem, but "somehow" this has escaped the attention of newspapers). Another detail to escape the attention of everyone : at least 75% are very dark to black males aged 15-25 (likely not from Northern Africa as they use scarves and thick jackets even in 20-25 degree temperatures). There are almost no families among the refugees. Almost none at all. Given the composition of the refugee flow, they won't peacefully settle and join socity. They can't, if they wanted to, build families, as that requires a roughly 50-50 gender split. They certainly don't appear to want to) Thirdly, this whole Russia spying thing. The thing under investigation are wikileaks releases, or at least, that's a big part of it. So it comes down simply to ... do I believe Julien Assange, or do I believe Hillary Clinton ? Well sorry to put it like this, but there's no contest here. Julien Assange has built up a far higher level of trust, and for instance proven that Hillary is a warmonger, in direct contradiction to what she's saying publicly. So sorry to point this out, but again I'll be believing Assange here.
- Fnoord 10y ago
  > Entire neighborhoods are no-go zones. There are "demonstrations" on a monthly basis in pretty much every large city in Holland [...] The amount of looting during those demonstrations is absurd (ie. walking through the shopping street on the day after has them looking like a warzone). Really? In Holland? I'm from Holland, and I live near Amsterdam which I think qualifies for "pretty much every large city". Where exactly in Amsterdam are these demonstrations with looting you're talking about? How do you even define "demonstration"? Also, have you considered the news isn't newsworthy on a national or international level, but is on a local level? News from Amsterdam can be found on at5.nl, tho personally I hardly ever read that. Rotterdam has their own local newspapers and news website as well. Etc. > There is a Middle African refugee problem, but "somehow" this has escaped the attention of newspapers). This is plain bullshit. The African refugee problem (whom were mainly arriving in Italy) was well documented in Dutch media. It is just that such is not being reported much anymore because the other refugee problem is newer and supposedly much larger. > Julien Assange Julian Assange
  - candiodari 10y ago
    Well the demonstrations with looting I've seen were in Brussels, Rijsel, Paris and a few smaller cities. There's plenty of places in Rotterdam that you shouldn't go, more if you're female. As for the refugee problem, I was last in Paris, and let me tell you, it's an African and pretty much all male refugee problem there. I've seen the same people in Brussels, though in better circumstances.

by caf 10y ago

xupybd 10y ago

Yeah I came across the same thing. It was re-shared from several years ago, I didn't bother to check that it was true on that year, but that was also a red flag that it was false.

candiodari 10y ago

The problem is that the reverse is also true. The US and EU Governments expect us to believe things that are obviously untrue. The biggest current example, I think is the Syrian proxy war. Obvious reality is that the US caused the war, and the EU and US and Saudi Arabia are supporting it, and specifically supporting the rebel side that is committing ethnic and religious cleansing. And Obama is supporting it, and so is the EU. Meanwhile Russia based tv channels put out videos of rebels with suicide vests, and American equipment ... what conclusion are we supposed to draw ? The message of both US and EU and even Saudi Arabia's government is that they simply want to protect the local population. Anyone with a passing knowledge of the middle east know that if there is one thing the rebels will not do, it's protect the local population. I call bullshit. The economy is another. I find the state of the US economy as reported by the US government, especially where it comes to employment, to be very hard to believe. It just does not seem to match what is obvious when visiting relatives. But employment is one thing. Inflation is very much not what it is claimed to be (and Obamacare is a big factor in that - which seems convenient), but it's not just that. Rent, fuel, public transport, ... all of it just doesn't match what my eyes see, inflation-wise. I see about 6% inflation in a big middle-American city in my expenses. And some numbers themselves are equally in "how can that possibly be true ?" territory. Goods transferred, energy usage, building activity, all of these numbers are supposed to represent core parts of the economy. They're all significantly down, in some cases very significantly, and yet ... the economy grows pretty much exactly at the rate the government predicted it would ... A bit less, but not much. The EU ... same thing. France's economy is growing at 0.5% per year ? I call bullshit. 5% per year drop ... now that might be true. But anyone higher than a 2% per year drop just isn't a realistic figure for France. Marseille definitely has it worse than that, and even Paris is stagnant or slightly better than stagnant at best. Nobody is happy. Hell, even the numbers out of China on the economy are highly suspect. Exports are way down, obviously, by the measurement of what is being shipped out of China. Given that this has had zero effect on production, which has in fact gone up, one of two things has happened : either the internal market transformation has already happened (hah !), or they ... are ... bullshit. Judging by what I hear from Chinese people who have visited relatives but live in Australia it is very much the bullshit situation. The state of the refugee problem in the EU is another one. You have the public news flow about nothing being wrong, about the EU just peacefully absorbing some refugees, no problem. And then you have the reality leaks through moments, which are in fact being repressed by the press, and sadly here I know that for a fact. Cars, hundreds every weekend, are being torched in every large French city. Entire neighborhoods are no-go zones. There are "demonstrations" on a monthly basis in pretty much every large city in Holland, Belgium, France and Germany. I've seen 5 of them. 5 ! I am not really there that often. The amount of looting during those demonstrations is absurd (ie. walking through the shopping street on the day after has them looking like a warzone). The security measures shops are taking in response are also very, very visible. And yet in the newspapers ... nothing. You have to look on fora to find these events. On occasion glimpses of reality break through, like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_S8eKMDlJk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_S8eKMDlJk, or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb3rNkkCAJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb3rNkkCAJY, or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbKS7tt6g-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbKS7tt6g-4 (note how Syrian they look by the way. Reality is there is no Syrian refugee problem. There is a Middle African refugee problem, but "somehow" this has escaped the attention of newspapers). Another detail to escape the attention of everyone : at least 75% are very dark to black males aged 15-25 (likely not from Northern Africa as they use scarves and thick jackets even in 20-25 degree temperatures). There are almost no families among the refugees. Almost none at all. Given the composition of the refugee flow, they won't peacefully settle and join socity. They can't, if they wanted to, build families, as that requires a roughly 50-50 gender split. They certainly don't appear to want to) Thirdly, this whole Russia spying thing. The thing under investigation are wikileaks releases, or at least, that's a big part of it. So it comes down simply to ... do I believe Julien Assange, or do I believe Hillary Clinton ? Well sorry to put it like this, but there's no contest here. Julien Assange has built up a far higher level of trust, and for instance proven that Hillary is a warmonger, in direct contradiction to what she's saying publicly. So sorry to point this out, but again I'll be believing Assange here.

Fnoord 10y ago
> Entire neighborhoods are no-go zones. There are "demonstrations" on a monthly basis in pretty much every large city in Holland [...] The amount of looting during those demonstrations is absurd (ie. walking through the shopping street on the day after has them looking like a warzone). Really? In Holland? I'm from Holland, and I live near Amsterdam which I think qualifies for "pretty much every large city". Where exactly in Amsterdam are these demonstrations with looting you're talking about? How do you even define "demonstration"? Also, have you considered the news isn't newsworthy on a national or international level, but is on a local level? News from Amsterdam can be found on at5.nl, tho personally I hardly ever read that. Rotterdam has their own local newspapers and news website as well. Etc. > There is a Middle African refugee problem, but "somehow" this has escaped the attention of newspapers). This is plain bullshit. The African refugee problem (whom were mainly arriving in Italy) was well documented in Dutch media. It is just that such is not being reported much anymore because the other refugee problem is newer and supposedly much larger. > Julien Assange Julian Assange
- candiodari 10y ago
  Well the demonstrations with looting I've seen were in Brussels, Rijsel, Paris and a few smaller cities. There's plenty of places in Rotterdam that you shouldn't go, more if you're female. As for the refugee problem, I was last in Paris, and let me tell you, it's an African and pretty much all male refugee problem there. I've seen the same people in Brussels, though in better circumstances.