4 ms·

Should we criminalize difficult exam questions?

8 points by amichail 17y ago

mquander 17y ago
Question: Should we criminalize proposing something crazy by prefixing it with "One might say that..." or "One could make an argument that...", relieving the author of the responsibility of actually substantially defending their crazy remark? Answer: No. That author should only be liable in civil court.
- nudge 17y ago
  I love amichail's posts. A few more gems: "There's quite a lot of pressure to excel in high school and university. I wonder if getting an education is more dangerous than say smoking. What do you think?" "Should games get upset when not played much? For example, a tetris-type game could show sad faces in the blocks when it is neglected." And, my favourite (edited for brevity): "Students should be taught to lie and cheat. These things require intelligence. Encouraging students to lie and cheat in school would improve their thinking abilities... You could reward the students whose cheating was successful with bonus marks. To get these bonus marks, students would need to fully disclose how they cheated after they got away with it. Their cheating techniques would then be made known to all students, who could then use them as ideas for more elaborate techniques... In the end, students may end up smarter and more honest."
yummyfajitas 17y ago
I truly wish this was a joke. An actual exchange I had with a student: Visibly agitated student: "Your test was badly designed! I only got an 80 on it!" Me: "I accurately measured who understands the material and who does not. Everyone here knows what they know and knows some things they don't know. Also, you got the 3'rd highest grade and an A. What's the problem?" Student: "But what about my self esteem? I never got lower than a 90 before."
- elviejo 17y ago
  I wish it was a joke too.
- amichail 17y ago
  There are many exams given where questions require not just study and understanding but also a high level of innate intelligence. So no matter how hard the average student may study, he/she would have little chance of making progress on such questions. This could be devastating mentally -- and perhaps science will show that it eventually results in permanent brain damage.
  - mquander 17y ago
    Perhaps science will show that pigs have wings, and perhaps if a student is "devastated mentally" when he finds out that he isn't easily capable of grasping some particular academic subfield, he should take up a trade instead of going to college.
  - c00ki3s 17y ago
    Are you joking? If you aren't smart enough, then maybe you just shouldn't be in that course. There is no god given right to pass any exam.
  - timwiseman 17y ago
    I hope this is a joke. First, this is probably factually false. I don't have studies to cite offhand, but it seems that the brain is immenantly trainable to virtually any specific task. Perhaps, just perhaps, many people do not have the innate potential to do Nobel Prize leve research, but I suspect anyone without a genuine mental disability can with time and determination master just about any undergraduate level topic. If I am genuinely wrong and some people are not innately capable of passing a specific class, then the answer is still not to lower the standards so they can pass it. Rather that would mean (if true) that that person does not belong in that class. Perhaps they need to change majors or choose different electives, but lowering the standards will harm everyone else in that class.
  - yummyfajitas 17y ago
tetha 17y ago
The major issue with this is finding a good formalization of "difficult" and especially "too difficult". At this university course, theoretical computer science or electronical engineering have devastating success quotas. I found at least the first one easy. I also had to check an exam if it was too difficult or too long. It took me around 20 minutes to finish. There were people who needed more than the allocated 2 hours. Thus, I just cannot see how this could work out.
bitwize 17y ago
Remember when school was hard? Remember when you had to study for tests? Remember when you knuckled down and did the work, or else flunked and were held back? Yeah, say goodbye to all that and hello to the self-esteem regime. Emitting busloads of incompetents who feel good about themselves. Since the thing to aspire to nowadays is to get on a reality show, I guess they'll have all the skills they need regardless. God bless America, huh?
jorgecastillo 17y ago
There is always some one better and some one worse than you at everything, that's life. Should we deceive students making them believe that they will always get good grades? Maybe we should just skip this and lower the standard? I think it's better that we strive for excellence even if we don't achieve than we strive for a false accomplishments (mediocrity).

8 points by amichail 17y ago

Question: Should we criminalize proposing something crazy by prefixing it with "One might say that..." or "One could make an argument that...", relieving the author of the responsibility of actually substantially defending their crazy remark? Answer: No. That author should only be liable in civil court.

nudge 17y ago
I love amichail's posts. A few more gems: "There's quite a lot of pressure to excel in high school and university. I wonder if getting an education is more dangerous than say smoking. What do you think?" "Should games get upset when not played much? For example, a tetris-type game could show sad faces in the blocks when it is neglected." And, my favourite (edited for brevity): "Students should be taught to lie and cheat. These things require intelligence. Encouraging students to lie and cheat in school would improve their thinking abilities... You could reward the students whose cheating was successful with bonus marks. To get these bonus marks, students would need to fully disclose how they cheated after they got away with it. Their cheating techniques would then be made known to all students, who could then use them as ideas for more elaborate techniques... In the end, students may end up smarter and more honest."

yummyfajitas 17y ago

I truly wish this was a joke. An actual exchange I had with a student: Visibly agitated student: "Your test was badly designed! I only got an 80 on it!" Me: "I accurately measured who understands the material and who does not. Everyone here knows what they know and knows some things they don't know. Also, you got the 3'rd highest grade and an A. What's the problem?" Student: "But what about my self esteem? I never got lower than a 90 before."

elviejo 17y ago
I wish it was a joke too.
amichail 17y ago
There are many exams given where questions require not just study and understanding but also a high level of innate intelligence. So no matter how hard the average student may study, he/she would have little chance of making progress on such questions. This could be devastating mentally -- and perhaps science will show that it eventually results in permanent brain damage.
- mquander 17y ago
  Perhaps science will show that pigs have wings, and perhaps if a student is "devastated mentally" when he finds out that he isn't easily capable of grasping some particular academic subfield, he should take up a trade instead of going to college.
- c00ki3s 17y ago
  Are you joking? If you aren't smart enough, then maybe you just shouldn't be in that course. There is no god given right to pass any exam.
- timwiseman 17y ago
  I hope this is a joke. First, this is probably factually false. I don't have studies to cite offhand, but it seems that the brain is immenantly trainable to virtually any specific task. Perhaps, just perhaps, many people do not have the innate potential to do Nobel Prize leve research, but I suspect anyone without a genuine mental disability can with time and determination master just about any undergraduate level topic. If I am genuinely wrong and some people are not innately capable of passing a specific class, then the answer is still not to lower the standards so they can pass it. Rather that would mean (if true) that that person does not belong in that class. Perhaps they need to change majors or choose different electives, but lowering the standards will harm everyone else in that class.
- yummyfajitas 17y ago

tetha 17y ago

The major issue with this is finding a good formalization of "difficult" and especially "too difficult". At this university course, theoretical computer science or electronical engineering have devastating success quotas. I found at least the first one easy. I also had to check an exam if it was too difficult or too long. It took me around 20 minutes to finish. There were people who needed more than the allocated 2 hours. Thus, I just cannot see how this could work out.

bitwize 17y ago

Remember when school was hard? Remember when you had to study for tests? Remember when you knuckled down and did the work, or else flunked and were held back? Yeah, say goodbye to all that and hello to the self-esteem regime. Emitting busloads of incompetents who feel good about themselves. Since the thing to aspire to nowadays is to get on a reality show, I guess they'll have all the skills they need regardless. God bless America, huh?

jorgecastillo 17y ago

There is always some one better and some one worse than you at everything, that's life. Should we deceive students making them believe that they will always get good grades? Maybe we should just skip this and lower the standard? I think it's better that we strive for excellence even if we don't achieve than we strive for a false accomplishments (mediocrity).