5 ms·

why is first image a elf lady? shoudnt hackers be sort of gender neutral?

by marmaduke 10y ago

TillE 10y ago
It's a helpful clue that the setting is more Shadowrun than Neuromancer.
skj 10y ago
Elf men and women are indistinguishable.
- marmaduke 10y ago
  ah I didn't know that
  - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
    That's only sort of true (male elves in art tend to be slender and androgynous, but still identifiably male) and anyway beside the point. Yes, that elf is probably intended to be female, and that's okay.
slmyers 10y ago
Why should hackers be gender neutral or agender/androgynous?
- marmaduke 10y ago
  I mean, the not-so-subtle imagery of a sexy elf woman sort of pushes buttons on introverted, gamerish masculinity in a manipulative way that seems at odds with notions of hackerdom.
  - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
    Advertising everything with oversexualized women is a real problem, but that character is not at all sexualized. You seem to be saying that games should only depict men or ugly women. That is really not what anyone needs or wants.
KirinDave 10y ago
I looked. I actually don't see that art pushing many of the fantasy art sex trope buttons: 1. Wearing what looks like not-outrageous closes. 2. There is no obvious cleavage. 3. There is no willing-come-hither smile at the PoV 4. Indeed, they are ignoring the PoV. Look, that whole Male-Gaze thing is not about erasing all aspects of feminine form in art. That'd actually be a worse outcome if our goal is better and fairer representation. It's about pointing out that Cindy from FFXV is a pretty manipulative and somewhat denigrating trope in fantasy art. Think about how many _male_ body types have become acceptable in fantasy art over time. Old men, fat men, emaciated men, short men, slouchy men, skinny men. We're getting progressively more comfortable with men of color in fantasy art as well (although still a long way to go here in many ways). Healthy or sick, brown or pale, native or imperialist, writers find a way to make identifiable and enjoyable protagonists out of a lot of male archetypes, and for what it's worth most of that is great. But when it comes to women, we see WAY fewer allowable templates and they tend to skew towards what the male consensus finds desirable. When we really sit down and see what's fair game for these genders, obviously that's not terribly fair. That's the principle complaint people are trying to redress. By locking every female archetype to what a 25-year old man fantasizes about, we create fewer opportunities for a real and textured world and create a sensation of isolation, distance and difference among those ignored groups.
- marmaduke 10y ago
  You're right. I looked up "cindy ffxv" since I didn't know and by comparison this is one is cool. I guess I was expecting an image which says more about what happens in the game.
GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
Would you have preferred an elf dude?
pavel_lishin 10y ago
I'm not sure if that's supposed to be a man or a woman.
PhasmaFelis 10y ago
I read this comment and thought "Ugh, I bet they put a half-naked chick with improbable tits on there, as usual." I looked at the site and she's well-clad and and actually kind of androgynous. I'm really not sure what the problem is. Are you saying they shouldn't have put a person on the cover at all?

why is first image a elf lady? shoudnt hackers be sort of gender neutral?

TillE 10y ago

It's a helpful clue that the setting is more Shadowrun than Neuromancer.

skj 10y ago

Elf men and women are indistinguishable.

marmaduke 10y ago
ah I didn't know that
- PhasmaFelis 10y ago
  That's only sort of true (male elves in art tend to be slender and androgynous, but still identifiably male) and anyway beside the point. Yes, that elf is probably intended to be female, and that's okay.

slmyers 10y ago

Why should hackers be gender neutral or agender/androgynous?

marmaduke 10y ago
I mean, the not-so-subtle imagery of a sexy elf woman sort of pushes buttons on introverted, gamerish masculinity in a manipulative way that seems at odds with notions of hackerdom.
- PhasmaFelis 10y ago
  Advertising everything with oversexualized women is a real problem, but that character is not at all sexualized. You seem to be saying that games should only depict men or ugly women. That is really not what anyone needs or wants.

KirinDave 10y ago

I looked. I actually don't see that art pushing many of the fantasy art sex trope buttons: 1. Wearing what looks like not-outrageous closes. 2. There is no obvious cleavage. 3. There is no willing-come-hither smile at the PoV 4. Indeed, they are ignoring the PoV. Look, that whole Male-Gaze thing is not about erasing all aspects of feminine form in art. That'd actually be a worse outcome if our goal is better and fairer representation. It's about pointing out that Cindy from FFXV is a pretty manipulative and somewhat denigrating trope in fantasy art. Think about how many _male_ body types have become acceptable in fantasy art over time. Old men, fat men, emaciated men, short men, slouchy men, skinny men. We're getting progressively more comfortable with men of color in fantasy art as well (although still a long way to go here in many ways). Healthy or sick, brown or pale, native or imperialist, writers find a way to make identifiable and enjoyable protagonists out of a lot of male archetypes, and for what it's worth most of that is great. But when it comes to women, we see WAY fewer allowable templates and they tend to skew towards what the male consensus finds desirable. When we really sit down and see what's fair game for these genders, obviously that's not terribly fair. That's the principle complaint people are trying to redress. By locking every female archetype to what a 25-year old man fantasizes about, we create fewer opportunities for a real and textured world and create a sensation of isolation, distance and difference among those ignored groups.

marmaduke 10y ago
You're right. I looked up "cindy ffxv" since I didn't know and by comparison this is one is cool. I guess I was expecting an image which says more about what happens in the game.

GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago

Would you have preferred an elf dude?

pavel_lishin 10y ago

I'm not sure if that's supposed to be a man or a woman.

PhasmaFelis 10y ago

I read this comment and thought "Ugh, I bet they put a half-naked chick with improbable tits on there, as usual." I looked at the site and she's well-clad and and actually kind of androgynous. I'm really not sure what the problem is. Are you saying they shouldn't have put a person on the cover at all?