3 ms·

If by safe spaces you mean places where people of colour aren't subjected to racism, gay people aren't subjected to homophobia and women aren't subjected to mis

If by safe spaces you mean places where people of colour aren't subjected to racism, gay people aren't subjected to homophobia and women aren't subjected to misogyny, then I fail to see how any of these types of attack would help anyone "move forward", even "creators".

jdavis703 10y ago
A safe space was originally a place where you could have a discussion about anything. A transgender individual could sit down with say an evangelical pastor and have an honest discussion about issues they disagree on without ad hominem attacks, fear of saying the wrong thing, etc. Somehow Safe Spaces came to be regarded as a place safe from anything remotely controversial, which hinders having conversation with people on the other side of the divide.
- vanderreeah 10y ago
  The problem here is that we don't have a fixed definition of this relatively new concept. Your description here of safe spaces as places devoid of controversy does not match up with my experience of encountering the concept in the world and online. As I said, for me it means a place where prejudices are not expressed in (in your words) ad hominem attacks, not a place where complex, innovative thinking is forbidden. I'm not saying my experience of the concept is right and yours is wrong, but the fact is this discussion is bound to end in mutual confusion from the get-go given our differing understandings of 'safe space'.
kristofferR 10y ago
That's what safe spaces are defined as in the dictionary, but it's not what they are in practise though. In practise it's often a system of oppressing dissenting opinions and voluntary segregation.
- vanderreeah 10y ago
  I can only say that when you say "in practise" you sound dogmatic, defensive and vague. I am going on the assumption that you have not (as I have not) performed any kind of scientific / sociological investigation into this and that in fact when you say "in practise" you mean "in the limited set of encounters with safe spaces that I have experienced". I admit you say "often", thereby admitting the possibility that sometimes a safe space could accord with its dictionary definition. But your comment is mostly just the impotent expression of hearsay. At the very least an example ought to be given. Without that bare minimum I really can't understand why your comment exists.
  - kristofferR 10y ago
    I don't really understand the point of your comment either, you didn't give any examples or give any indications that you have performed any scientific/sociological investigation into safe spaces either. My phrasing of the comment wasn't the best, I admit that, but you made an unsubstantiated claim to what safe spaces are in the comment I replied to, just as unsubstantiated as my claims. I was actually deliberately vague in the comment. Unfortunately it's usually not a good idea to post examples in forum discussions like this, since it quickly turns into a pointless competition where the part who wastes the least time googling for examples/counter-examples/criticizing the examples the other gave are considered the loser. If I had had posted examples you would probably have clicked them, looked for flaws, wasted time criticising them and googled for examples to make your own point. Then I would have had to do the same with your examples. And so on, until one of us grew tired of it, none the wiser. I could have posted a lot of links about safe spaces, but in practise I would just do the googling for you. NYT wrote this week about how Trump supporters feel like they need their own safe spaces on college campuses, which is a sad testament to the division and increasing political segregation in America, no matters if its trolling or genuinely felt.
    - vanderreeah 10y ago
      My point was precisely that neither of us has done this kind of investigation (in a clause you clearly didn't parse, I actually said that I hadn't either), and that in the absence of such large-scale evidence remarks as vague as yours only have even the minimum of meaning with at least some experiential data. You also contradict yourself: here you say that I was making an unsubstantiated claim, whereas earlier you said I was paraphrasing the dictionary definition. The first is indefensible in arguments like this; the second seems like a reasonable approach. I agree about googling.
nilved 10y ago
Censorship tends to have more implications than that

jdavis703 10y ago

A safe space was originally a place where you could have a discussion about anything. A transgender individual could sit down with say an evangelical pastor and have an honest discussion about issues they disagree on without ad hominem attacks, fear of saying the wrong thing, etc. Somehow Safe Spaces came to be regarded as a place safe from anything remotely controversial, which hinders having conversation with people on the other side of the divide.

vanderreeah 10y ago
The problem here is that we don't have a fixed definition of this relatively new concept. Your description here of safe spaces as places devoid of controversy does not match up with my experience of encountering the concept in the world and online. As I said, for me it means a place where prejudices are not expressed in (in your words) ad hominem attacks, not a place where complex, innovative thinking is forbidden. I'm not saying my experience of the concept is right and yours is wrong, but the fact is this discussion is bound to end in mutual confusion from the get-go given our differing understandings of 'safe space'.

kristofferR 10y ago

That's what safe spaces are defined as in the dictionary, but it's not what they are in practise though. In practise it's often a system of oppressing dissenting opinions and voluntary segregation.

vanderreeah 10y ago
I can only say that when you say "in practise" you sound dogmatic, defensive and vague. I am going on the assumption that you have not (as I have not) performed any kind of scientific / sociological investigation into this and that in fact when you say "in practise" you mean "in the limited set of encounters with safe spaces that I have experienced". I admit you say "often", thereby admitting the possibility that sometimes a safe space could accord with its dictionary definition. But your comment is mostly just the impotent expression of hearsay. At the very least an example ought to be given. Without that bare minimum I really can't understand why your comment exists.
- kristofferR 10y ago
  I don't really understand the point of your comment either, you didn't give any examples or give any indications that you have performed any scientific/sociological investigation into safe spaces either. My phrasing of the comment wasn't the best, I admit that, but you made an unsubstantiated claim to what safe spaces are in the comment I replied to, just as unsubstantiated as my claims. I was actually deliberately vague in the comment. Unfortunately it's usually not a good idea to post examples in forum discussions like this, since it quickly turns into a pointless competition where the part who wastes the least time googling for examples/counter-examples/criticizing the examples the other gave are considered the loser. If I had had posted examples you would probably have clicked them, looked for flaws, wasted time criticising them and googled for examples to make your own point. Then I would have had to do the same with your examples. And so on, until one of us grew tired of it, none the wiser. I could have posted a lot of links about safe spaces, but in practise I would just do the googling for you. NYT wrote this week about how Trump supporters feel like they need their own safe spaces on college campuses, which is a sad testament to the division and increasing political segregation in America, no matters if its trolling or genuinely felt.
  - vanderreeah 10y ago
    My point was precisely that neither of us has done this kind of investigation (in a clause you clearly didn't parse, I actually said that I hadn't either), and that in the absence of such large-scale evidence remarks as vague as yours only have even the minimum of meaning with at least some experiential data. You also contradict yourself: here you say that I was making an unsubstantiated claim, whereas earlier you said I was paraphrasing the dictionary definition. The first is indefensible in arguments like this; the second seems like a reasonable approach. I agree about googling.

nilved 10y ago

Censorship tends to have more implications than that