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> If they had have called Python 3.0 v2.9 instead everyone would have been clear they had to migrate. [...] The reason this happend (and is still happening) are

by jnbiche 10y ago

> If they had have called Python 3.0 v2.9 instead everyone would have been clear they had to migrate. [...] The reason this happend (and is still happening) are human not technical. You know, as a strong proponent of Python 3.* (it's a significantly better Python), I started to write a withering critique of your statements here (and I do strongly disagree about naming it Python v2.9). But then I started actually looking at the evidence. For example, when you go to download Python at the python.org website, you're still presented with a choice between Python 2 and Python 3 side-by-side, looking for all purposes like equivalent choices (Python 2 should be much less prominent and toward the bottom and/or the download button should be much smaller than the Python 3 download button)[0]. And then, when you follow the link for "Wondering which version to use?", you get a full page worth of hemming and hawing, and cost-benefit analyses and so on[1]. In fact, they should be saying something like: Always use Python 3 unless you have a strong reason to do otherwise. This typically only applies to people who have large legacy code bases and are for some reason unable to upgrade, or else need a special legacy library only available in Python 2 (most libraries are available in Python 3)." So wow, having read the official python.org statements on the Python 2 vs 3 issue, I'm pretty appalled. No wonder some people who are relatively new to Python are confused or surprised. I'm on Debian or Ubuntu mostly and so download Python via package manager or PPA, or build from source. So I had no idea. It's also been a huge mistake for GVR to have allowed so many new and attractive features to be backported to Python 2.7. It's taken away a significant amount of incentive for people to make the move. Python 2.* should have been bugfixes only for a long, long time now. That said, if you're in charge of significant amount of Python code for a company and you've not seen for years that Python 2 is a deadend, you've either been engaging in wishful thinking or oblivious to what's happening in the Python community. 0. https://python.org/downloads/ https://python.org/downloads/ 1. https://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3 https://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3

kstrauser 10y ago
That's a really good point about the download links. The Python 2 link should be lower down on the page, or perhaps smaller, and maybe labeled "legacy support version" or similar. To be fair to the "Should I use Python 2 or Python 3 for my development activity?" page, it starts with: > Short version: Python 2.x is legacy, Python 3.x is the present and future of the language
Al-Khwarizmi 10y ago
It's also been a huge mistake for GVR to have allowed so many new and attractive features to be backported to Python 2.7. It's taken away a significant amount of incentive for people to make the move. The idea that Python 2 needs to be sabotaged and the community forbidden from improving it so that people makes the move, with the people who are stuck to Python 2 codebases held as hostages, should be an indicator that something was done very, very wrong... Personally, I'm neutral as to 2 vs. 3, I use both, but the schism is the main drawback of Python for me and it often drives me to just use other languages. Python 3 is great and has very neat improvements, but it should have just been called a different name so that both branches could evolve freely and compete on their own merits, rather than on the PSF mandating to use one over the other.

by jnbiche 10y ago

kstrauser 10y ago

That's a really good point about the download links. The Python 2 link should be lower down on the page, or perhaps smaller, and maybe labeled "legacy support version" or similar. To be fair to the "Should I use Python 2 or Python 3 for my development activity?" page, it starts with: > Short version: Python 2.x is legacy, Python 3.x is the present and future of the language

Al-Khwarizmi 10y ago

It's also been a huge mistake for GVR to have allowed so many new and attractive features to be backported to Python 2.7. It's taken away a significant amount of incentive for people to make the move. The idea that Python 2 needs to be sabotaged and the community forbidden from improving it so that people makes the move, with the people who are stuck to Python 2 codebases held as hostages, should be an indicator that something was done very, very wrong... Personally, I'm neutral as to 2 vs. 3, I use both, but the schism is the main drawback of Python for me and it often drives me to just use other languages. Python 3 is great and has very neat improvements, but it should have just been called a different name so that both branches could evolve freely and compete on their own merits, rather than on the PSF mandating to use one over the other.