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Tape recorders are not still being made; verdict: obsolete T-shirts are still being made; verdict: not obsolete Python 2 is not still being made; verdict: obs

by underyx 10y ago

Tape recorders are not still being made; verdict: obsolete T-shirts are still being made; verdict: not obsolete Python 2 is not still being made; verdict: obsolete

wfunction 10y ago
Python 2 is still being "made" in the sense you consider T-shirts are still being made, though. it's still provided for download, and people are downloading it and using it, and even using it for new things. Heck, it's even getting bugfixes which is a plus. It's just not getting features added, and it happens to be software so reproducing it happens to be trivial compared to "hardware" like clothing. So, do your comparisons correctly. No matter how much you insist, Python 2 just isn't dead (or obsolete, etc.). Lack of new features doesn't imply obsolete.
- actsasbuffoon 10y ago
  You can still download the operating system for an Amiga, yet the Amiga is obsolete (despite diehards still using 31 year old computers). Python 2 is no longer being actively developed. It receives bug fixes, and even those are scheduled to stop before too much longer. The fact that people are using Python 2 means that it's not dead, but that doesn't mean it isn't obsolete. Think of it this way. You need a library to solve some problem, and you find one on Github. The project hasn't received any major updates in 3 years. Some people have submitted pull requests, and a few of them have even been merged, but it's clear that the maintainers are focused on other projects these days. Is that an indication that this project is simply mature and no further work is required? Or could it indicate that the maintainers want to work on other things, and this is not a priority for them any longer? Saying that Python 2 is obsolete isn't an insult. Python 2 is popular, and loved by many, many people. It has been adopted as a teaching language by many schools, has inspired multitudes of people to learn to code, and has achieved prominence in data science, machine learning, and scientific computing. It also happens to be at the end of its lifecycle, development has moved on to Python 3, and the developers don't have much interest in maintaining Python 2 any longer. That doesn't diminish the accomplishments of Python 2 or the people who love it. However, it does mean that the label fits.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >You can still download the operating system for an Amiga, yet the Amiga is obsolete (despite diehards still using 31 year old computers) That's because nobody (very few) use the Amiga. On the contrary, very many, much more than use Python 3, use Python 2. So, it's not like the Amiga at all. It's more like as if e.g. Apple suddenly decided to stop producing laptops because "iPads are the future", and forcing these down everybody's throat.
wellsjohnston 10y ago
This is just wrong. For example, the "best" recording microphone (to many artists), the U67, can no longer be made because the parts aren't available anymore. Yet it is the most popular mic, and 100% not obsolete. Similarly, Python 2 might not be made anymore, but it is used everywhere, and people are making new things with it. So...it's also not obsolete.
throwanem 10y ago
Submitted for your approval: https://vimeo.com/15365268 https://vimeo.com/15365268 (No, it's not related to the matter at hand, and certainly should not be taken as an attempt to further complicate this not especially fruitful wrangle. But it's a goodie and you reminded me of it so I figured I'd share.)
coldtea 10y ago
That's not for the manufacturer to decide. Python 3 is like Coca Cola declaring that the New Coke is all people should drink, and stopping production of classic coke. Python 2 is still being "worn" by millions of programmers, and is what runs in the biggest installations. This includes new code written for those installations, that it's written to run in the same 2.x environment.
- sethish 10y ago
  > That's not for the manufacturer to decide. Python 3 is like Coca Cola declaring that the New Coke is all people should drink, and stopping production of classic coke. That is within the rights of a manufacturer though. Coca Cola can continue to produce classic coke because it isn't any more or less complicated to produce than New Coke. The PSF's opinion is the new features they develop are best developed on top of the core changes in Python3, and that adding new features to Python2 is too expensive to maintain in addition to Python3. I feel like the cases are too different to work.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >That is within the rights of a manufacturer though Sure. Still bad for the consumers who want the classic Coke though.
BuckRogers 10y ago
That's wrong. It's not if something is being made, it's if something is being used. Nothing is obsolete that's still doing a job.

by underyx 10y ago

Tape recorders are not still being made; verdict: obsolete T-shirts are still being made; verdict: not obsolete Python 2 is not still being made; verdict: obsolete

wfunction 10y ago

Python 2 is still being "made" in the sense you consider T-shirts are still being made, though. it's still provided for download, and people are downloading it and using it, and even using it for new things. Heck, it's even getting bugfixes which is a plus. It's just not getting features added, and it happens to be software so reproducing it happens to be trivial compared to "hardware" like clothing. So, do your comparisons correctly. No matter how much you insist, Python 2 just isn't dead (or obsolete, etc.). Lack of new features doesn't imply obsolete.

actsasbuffoon 10y ago
You can still download the operating system for an Amiga, yet the Amiga is obsolete (despite diehards still using 31 year old computers). Python 2 is no longer being actively developed. It receives bug fixes, and even those are scheduled to stop before too much longer. The fact that people are using Python 2 means that it's not dead, but that doesn't mean it isn't obsolete. Think of it this way. You need a library to solve some problem, and you find one on Github. The project hasn't received any major updates in 3 years. Some people have submitted pull requests, and a few of them have even been merged, but it's clear that the maintainers are focused on other projects these days. Is that an indication that this project is simply mature and no further work is required? Or could it indicate that the maintainers want to work on other things, and this is not a priority for them any longer? Saying that Python 2 is obsolete isn't an insult. Python 2 is popular, and loved by many, many people. It has been adopted as a teaching language by many schools, has inspired multitudes of people to learn to code, and has achieved prominence in data science, machine learning, and scientific computing. It also happens to be at the end of its lifecycle, development has moved on to Python 3, and the developers don't have much interest in maintaining Python 2 any longer. That doesn't diminish the accomplishments of Python 2 or the people who love it. However, it does mean that the label fits.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >You can still download the operating system for an Amiga, yet the Amiga is obsolete (despite diehards still using 31 year old computers) That's because nobody (very few) use the Amiga. On the contrary, very many, much more than use Python 3, use Python 2. So, it's not like the Amiga at all. It's more like as if e.g. Apple suddenly decided to stop producing laptops because "iPads are the future", and forcing these down everybody's throat.

wellsjohnston 10y ago

This is just wrong. For example, the "best" recording microphone (to many artists), the U67, can no longer be made because the parts aren't available anymore. Yet it is the most popular mic, and 100% not obsolete. Similarly, Python 2 might not be made anymore, but it is used everywhere, and people are making new things with it. So...it's also not obsolete.

throwanem 10y ago

Submitted for your approval: https://vimeo.com/15365268 https://vimeo.com/15365268 (No, it's not related to the matter at hand, and certainly should not be taken as an attempt to further complicate this not especially fruitful wrangle. But it's a goodie and you reminded me of it so I figured I'd share.)

coldtea 10y ago

That's not for the manufacturer to decide. Python 3 is like Coca Cola declaring that the New Coke is all people should drink, and stopping production of classic coke. Python 2 is still being "worn" by millions of programmers, and is what runs in the biggest installations. This includes new code written for those installations, that it's written to run in the same 2.x environment.

sethish 10y ago
> That's not for the manufacturer to decide. Python 3 is like Coca Cola declaring that the New Coke is all people should drink, and stopping production of classic coke. That is within the rights of a manufacturer though. Coca Cola can continue to produce classic coke because it isn't any more or less complicated to produce than New Coke. The PSF's opinion is the new features they develop are best developed on top of the core changes in Python3, and that adding new features to Python2 is too expensive to maintain in addition to Python3. I feel like the cases are too different to work.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >That is within the rights of a manufacturer though Sure. Still bad for the consumers who want the classic Coke though.

BuckRogers 10y ago

That's wrong. It's not if something is being made, it's if something is being used. Nothing is obsolete that's still doing a job.