4 ms·

I find it deeply disappointing that this totally skips some very important parts, namely attitude, motivation and ethics. (Except for so-called "Ethical Hacking

by vog 10y ago

I find it deeply disappointing that this totally skips some very important parts, namely attitude, motivation and ethics. (Except for so-called "Ethical Hacking". On the other hand, what should one expect from the blog of a security company?) I recommend the all-time classic "How To Become A Hacker" by Eric S. Raymond: http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html

initium 10y ago
I just read How To Become A Hacker the other day and I highly recommend it. Not only is it a good read but the resources for continued reading mentioned in the text is very good content.
perch56 10y ago
Be careful not to confuse this blog with F-Secure the Finnish Security company. Seems to me the two are totally unrelated.
sdevlin 10y ago
ESR is a racist and a misogynist. And that document might as well be called "how to be ESR".
- ms7 10y ago
  Care to share a source for that?
  - tptacek 10y ago
    The cites would fill the whole thread. You can take his word for it.
  - sdevlin 10y ago
    Just read his blog.
- fao_ 10y ago
  Not to mention violently right-wing and believes he was, for a short period, a god[1] >.> [1]: http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/dancing.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/dancing.html
  - notduncansmith 10y ago
    Just read the linked post in full and that's an awfully reductive comment on the experiences he describes there. I suggest taking a more intellectually honest look at that writing (not to defend any of his other writing or views, which I haven't read).
    - tptacek 10y ago
      I think we're all pretty sure ESR is not in fact a god, and that nothing could have occurred with ESR or his magic flute to have demonstrated to him that he was. Rather, the story is more broadly illustrative of a pretty extreme narcissism and --- challenging --- variant of self-awareness. For a more down to earth example, consider how many of us would non-ironically write the following passage: I’m wondering about this because my wife Cathy asked me a simple question last night, and I realized I didn’t have an answer to it. “Are you” she asked “the most famous programmer in the world?” This was a question which I had, believe it or not, never thought about before. But it’s a reasonable one to ask, given recent evidence – notably, the unexpected success of my Patreon page. This is relevant because Patreon is mainly an arts-funding site – it’s clearly not designed for or by techies. It goes on in this vein. Here, by the way, is a link to his Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/esr https://www.patreon.com/esr Apparently we value "the code that makes our digital world work" a bit less than we value the person who fries our french fries at McDonalds. If that sounds mean, well, it is, but it was also Eric Raymond who put forward the idea that his Patreon page may indicate that he's among the most famous programmers in the world. For a nerdier take on ESR's merits, hunt down Terry Lambert's take on fetchmail. (You should know who Terry Lambert is, if you don't already).
      - armitron 10y ago
        Not to mention that ESR was, at some point, a multi-millionaire. Pretty sure he still is, in which case that Patreon page of his would be nothing but a con.
- pedrodelfino 10y ago
  What if we separated his work from himself? I don't know Eric enough. I know he is right wing, but not sure if he is racist. Suppose he is a racist, can't his text about being a hacker be great? I read "How to become a hacker" in 2014. It is awesome and he does not say anything about woman and race on the text. According to some historians, Da Vinci was a dushbag. Should we ignore his crafts just because, apparently, he was a bad person? I don't think so.
- tptacek 10y ago
  That's true, but the bigger problem with the document is that ESR's role in "hacking" is largely "making things to assign CVEs to".
kdbg 10y ago
Except all this has in common with the original post is the word 'hack'. Actually what you've posted is quite clearly against what the original post is about. > There is another group of people who loudly call themselves hackers, but aren't. These are people (mainly adolescent males) who get a kick out of breaking into computers and phreaking the phone system. Real hackers call these people ‘crackers’ and want nothing to do with them. Real hackers mostly think crackers are lazy, irresponsible, and not very bright, and object that being able to break security doesn't make you a hacker any more than being able to hotwire cars makes you an automotive engineer. Unfortunately, many journalists and writers have been fooled into using the word ‘hacker’ to describe crackers; this irritates real hackers no end.
- vog 10y ago
  I suspect this is a cultural thing. Here in Germany, most journalists and writers use the term "hacker" for both, the constructive and destructive parts. For example, the Chaos Communication Congress is described by media as "hacker congress" even though it has a wide scope where presentations about breaking into systems are just a minor part of it.
  - kdbg 10y ago
    oh, for sure. Hacker I think has a much more broad meaning than JUST security. I don't think security should be excluded from it though as the How to be a Hacker article promotes.
Faizann20 10y ago
Apologies if you find it disappointing. The people who daily ask me questions about hacking are mostly interested in "Getting a swag from Google" part and I was a little bit inclined to give resources to such people. It is by no means a thorough guide covering everything. It's just a start for people wanting to learn some stuff. I found these resources to be quite good. Best Regards.

by vog 10y ago

initium 10y ago

I just read How To Become A Hacker the other day and I highly recommend it. Not only is it a good read but the resources for continued reading mentioned in the text is very good content.

perch56 10y ago

Be careful not to confuse this blog with F-Secure the Finnish Security company. Seems to me the two are totally unrelated.

sdevlin 10y ago

ESR is a racist and a misogynist. And that document might as well be called "how to be ESR".

ms7 10y ago
Care to share a source for that?
- tptacek 10y ago
  The cites would fill the whole thread. You can take his word for it.
- sdevlin 10y ago
  Just read his blog.
fao_ 10y ago
Not to mention violently right-wing and believes he was, for a short period, a god[1] >.> [1]: http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/dancing.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/dancing.html
- notduncansmith 10y ago
  Just read the linked post in full and that's an awfully reductive comment on the experiences he describes there. I suggest taking a more intellectually honest look at that writing (not to defend any of his other writing or views, which I haven't read).
  - tptacek 10y ago
    I think we're all pretty sure ESR is not in fact a god, and that nothing could have occurred with ESR or his magic flute to have demonstrated to him that he was. Rather, the story is more broadly illustrative of a pretty extreme narcissism and --- challenging --- variant of self-awareness. For a more down to earth example, consider how many of us would non-ironically write the following passage: I’m wondering about this because my wife Cathy asked me a simple question last night, and I realized I didn’t have an answer to it. “Are you” she asked “the most famous programmer in the world?” This was a question which I had, believe it or not, never thought about before. But it’s a reasonable one to ask, given recent evidence – notably, the unexpected success of my Patreon page. This is relevant because Patreon is mainly an arts-funding site – it’s clearly not designed for or by techies. It goes on in this vein. Here, by the way, is a link to his Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/esr https://www.patreon.com/esr Apparently we value "the code that makes our digital world work" a bit less than we value the person who fries our french fries at McDonalds. If that sounds mean, well, it is, but it was also Eric Raymond who put forward the idea that his Patreon page may indicate that he's among the most famous programmers in the world. For a nerdier take on ESR's merits, hunt down Terry Lambert's take on fetchmail. (You should know who Terry Lambert is, if you don't already).
    - armitron 10y ago
      Not to mention that ESR was, at some point, a multi-millionaire. Pretty sure he still is, in which case that Patreon page of his would be nothing but a con.
pedrodelfino 10y ago
What if we separated his work from himself? I don't know Eric enough. I know he is right wing, but not sure if he is racist. Suppose he is a racist, can't his text about being a hacker be great? I read "How to become a hacker" in 2014. It is awesome and he does not say anything about woman and race on the text. According to some historians, Da Vinci was a dushbag. Should we ignore his crafts just because, apparently, he was a bad person? I don't think so.
tptacek 10y ago
That's true, but the bigger problem with the document is that ESR's role in "hacking" is largely "making things to assign CVEs to".

kdbg 10y ago

Except all this has in common with the original post is the word 'hack'. Actually what you've posted is quite clearly against what the original post is about. > There is another group of people who loudly call themselves hackers, but aren't. These are people (mainly adolescent males) who get a kick out of breaking into computers and phreaking the phone system. Real hackers call these people ‘crackers’ and want nothing to do with them. Real hackers mostly think crackers are lazy, irresponsible, and not very bright, and object that being able to break security doesn't make you a hacker any more than being able to hotwire cars makes you an automotive engineer. Unfortunately, many journalists and writers have been fooled into using the word ‘hacker’ to describe crackers; this irritates real hackers no end.

vog 10y ago
I suspect this is a cultural thing. Here in Germany, most journalists and writers use the term "hacker" for both, the constructive and destructive parts. For example, the Chaos Communication Congress is described by media as "hacker congress" even though it has a wide scope where presentations about breaking into systems are just a minor part of it.
- kdbg 10y ago
  oh, for sure. Hacker I think has a much more broad meaning than JUST security. I don't think security should be excluded from it though as the How to be a Hacker article promotes.

Faizann20 10y ago

Apologies if you find it disappointing. The people who daily ask me questions about hacking are mostly interested in "Getting a swag from Google" part and I was a little bit inclined to give resources to such people. It is by no means a thorough guide covering everything. It's just a start for people wanting to learn some stuff. I found these resources to be quite good. Best Regards.