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Cop of 6 years here. One use of force incident (Crazy guy swung a stick at me, wrestled him to the ground without so much as punching him) This cop needed to

Cop of 6 years here. One use of force incident (Crazy guy swung a stick at me, wrestled him to the ground without so much as punching him) This cop needed to be fired. Human action is faster than reaction. A person holding an un-holstered weapon down at their side can draw, fire, and get 2-3 accurate shots off, before someone who is aiming down the sights, ready to fire, can recognize the movement and fire his own weapon. Use of force is judged by what the officer knew at the time, and what a reasonable officer would have done with that experience. Dude has a gun, is raising the gun at you. Yeah, its probably a suicide by cop. If its not, or if hes tired of you not killing him, he will kill you before you can do anything about it. Now you have a dead police officer, and the murderer has an extra gun, extra ammo, etc. This guy needed to be fired. Some of the best cops I have seen have been military/combat vets. Some of the worst have been as well. It is my understanding he had other issues than just this situation, but I can't cite that at the moment

CoderCop 10y ago
I'm new to posting at HN, and can't get the edit feature to work, but I did find an article about Mader's other issues.[1] Officer Mader responded to a deceased body, and determined the cause of death was natural causes, and treated the scene as such. Turns out the victim died of blunt force trauma to the head, neck and body, and the scene should've been treated as a crime scene. Unsure on his state. On a separate incident, Mader swore at person in a vehicle before performing an illegal search of the vehicle, lacking probable cause or a search warrant. The city claims they offered him the opportunity to appeal, and as far as I know the ACLU still hasn't picked up his case. Mader wanted to do the right thing in the incident reported in the OP, but sadly that kind of thing gets more people killed. You have a mentally distraught man with a gun, a 911 hangup from the same residence from a female, and the guy is now literally waving the gun around, and you still haven't addressed the threat. If you wait for him to aim down the sites, you are too late, and people die. [1]http://www.heraldstaronline.com/news/local-news/2016/09/weirton-officials-respond-to-story-about-cop-dismissal/ http://www.heraldstaronline.com/news/local-news/2016/09/weir...
JumpCrisscross 10y ago
> Use of force is judged by what the officer knew at the time, and what a reasonable officer would have done with that experience I agree that use of force may have been justified. I do not think the cop should have been fired. If you're going to fire cops for not shooting fast enough, you need to also fire them for what often looks like murder.
- rvanniekerk 10y ago
  Exactly, suspension with pay is NOT a justified punishment for an unjust murder. Cops are quick to jump in and defend the department for firing this guy, but when is the last time you've seen a cop speak out against an unjust shooting? Maybe if "suicide by cop" wasn't such a guaranteed outcome for brandishing a weapon near a police officer, people would be less inclined to attempt it. This cop tried to treat the victim like an actual human being in distress and got fired for it. Guy that popped off 4 shots gets praised for being a "good cop".
  - morganvachon 10y ago
    > This cop tried to treat the victim like an actual human being in distress and got fired for it. The article implies that he was fired for a totality of events prior to this incident, including interference with a crime scene, an illegal search, and cursing at a citizen. It appears his department is using this incident as the "final straw" to be able to let him go. If all of those other incidents are true, I don't believe he should be a police officer, despite my feeling that he acted correctly in initially trying to de-escalate the situation with the armed subject.
    - heisenbit 10y ago
      It is usually a bad idea to take an incident that does not justify firing by itself (or belongs to a similar class of incidents) as a trigger. The other alleged professional shortcomings were of a very different nature and that won't work well in court.
      - 10y ago
epimetheus 10y ago
Holy crap, is this what cops whisper to themselves overnight to make them feel better about killing people constantly? They aren't dealing with wild west, quick draw experts here. There was a guy with a pocket knife in Seattle awhile back that got executed by a cop because he was whittling (and deaf in the ear the cop was talking to him). Do you think that cop that that he was some ninja knife thrower that could make an accurate throw within milliseconds? When driving, traveling at 60mph, you have 10+ milliseconds to react, often that's not enough time. However, if you have a gun trained on me, with your freaking finger on the trigger, and it takes about 10ms to pull it, There is no way the typical meth head can whip out a holstered gun and shoot 2-3 people before you can squeeze that hair trigger. The fact that cops want put push that as the "fact of the matter" is sad, and pathetic. Go ahead and keep justifying your murder. Truth be told, most cops are probably scared shitless because your bosses push this bullshit about millisecond accuracy and military precision in thought and action, and it's your bosses that really cause this death-toll, it's best you just quit repeating their crap and focus on reality.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

CoderCop 10y ago

I'm new to posting at HN, and can't get the edit feature to work, but I did find an article about Mader's other issues.[1] Officer Mader responded to a deceased body, and determined the cause of death was natural causes, and treated the scene as such. Turns out the victim died of blunt force trauma to the head, neck and body, and the scene should've been treated as a crime scene. Unsure on his state. On a separate incident, Mader swore at person in a vehicle before performing an illegal search of the vehicle, lacking probable cause or a search warrant. The city claims they offered him the opportunity to appeal, and as far as I know the ACLU still hasn't picked up his case. Mader wanted to do the right thing in the incident reported in the OP, but sadly that kind of thing gets more people killed. You have a mentally distraught man with a gun, a 911 hangup from the same residence from a female, and the guy is now literally waving the gun around, and you still haven't addressed the threat. If you wait for him to aim down the sites, you are too late, and people die. [1]http://www.heraldstaronline.com/news/local-news/2016/09/weirton-officials-respond-to-story-about-cop-dismissal/ http://www.heraldstaronline.com/news/local-news/2016/09/weir...

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

> Use of force is judged by what the officer knew at the time, and what a reasonable officer would have done with that experience I agree that use of force may have been justified. I do not think the cop should have been fired. If you're going to fire cops for not shooting fast enough, you need to also fire them for what often looks like murder.

rvanniekerk 10y ago
Exactly, suspension with pay is NOT a justified punishment for an unjust murder. Cops are quick to jump in and defend the department for firing this guy, but when is the last time you've seen a cop speak out against an unjust shooting? Maybe if "suicide by cop" wasn't such a guaranteed outcome for brandishing a weapon near a police officer, people would be less inclined to attempt it. This cop tried to treat the victim like an actual human being in distress and got fired for it. Guy that popped off 4 shots gets praised for being a "good cop".
- morganvachon 10y ago
  > This cop tried to treat the victim like an actual human being in distress and got fired for it. The article implies that he was fired for a totality of events prior to this incident, including interference with a crime scene, an illegal search, and cursing at a citizen. It appears his department is using this incident as the "final straw" to be able to let him go. If all of those other incidents are true, I don't believe he should be a police officer, despite my feeling that he acted correctly in initially trying to de-escalate the situation with the armed subject.
  - heisenbit 10y ago
    It is usually a bad idea to take an incident that does not justify firing by itself (or belongs to a similar class of incidents) as a trigger. The other alleged professional shortcomings were of a very different nature and that won't work well in court.
    - 10y ago

epimetheus 10y ago

Holy crap, is this what cops whisper to themselves overnight to make them feel better about killing people constantly? They aren't dealing with wild west, quick draw experts here. There was a guy with a pocket knife in Seattle awhile back that got executed by a cop because he was whittling (and deaf in the ear the cop was talking to him). Do you think that cop that that he was some ninja knife thrower that could make an accurate throw within milliseconds? When driving, traveling at 60mph, you have 10+ milliseconds to react, often that's not enough time. However, if you have a gun trained on me, with your freaking finger on the trigger, and it takes about 10ms to pull it, There is no way the typical meth head can whip out a holstered gun and shoot 2-3 people before you can squeeze that hair trigger. The fact that cops want put push that as the "fact of the matter" is sad, and pathetic. Go ahead and keep justifying your murder. Truth be told, most cops are probably scared shitless because your bosses push this bullshit about millisecond accuracy and military precision in thought and action, and it's your bosses that really cause this death-toll, it's best you just quit repeating their crap and focus on reality.

deleted 10y ago

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