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You "can" sign up for gmail without a phone number (iirc it's fairly difficult, and you need to do something like use a fresh install of an android device or so

by divbit 10y ago

You "can" sign up for gmail without a phone number (iirc it's fairly difficult, and you need to do something like use a fresh install of an android device or something to trigger the right sequence of dialogues). However if you try to use that account outside of the device, they will soon (within a couple of logins) ask you for a phone number for "security purposes," - the dialogue says something like "there is something suspicious about this login" at which point your account is linked to whatever other accounts have your phone number (unless you have an unlimited supply of burner phones). - Note that I am remembering this from when I tried specifically to create an unlinked gmail account around nov 2015-jan 2016 (I used a formatted nexus 7 to do it), so things may have changed, maybe details are slightly off from memory.

divbit 10y ago
(For those who are saying it is possible, they might already know who you are based on browser cache, ip etc. Try it in incognito on a vpn. I get this: http://imgur.com/a/Y5Cxq http://imgur.com/a/Y5Cxq
- dpark 10y ago
  That's probably the result of using a VPN. Google undoubtedly knows that lots of accounts registered through VPNs are spammy. I just registered billyjiminy123@gmail in a private browsing session and didn't get prompted. I even sent an email without being prompted for verification.
  - divbit 10y ago
    /s/phone number/ip
    - dpark 10y ago
      Yes, Google can track my ip. I guess you should browse through tor if you're this worried about tracking. Google tracks IPs like Amazon tracks shipping addresses. It's kind of hard to deliver what you've requested if they don't have your address.
      - divbit 10y ago
        I can still get email through a vpn just like I can get packages at a p.o. box.
        dpark 10y ago
        My point about the address comparison was that if you're using Google, you're asking them to send you data. Yes, you can route all requests through a VPN, just as you have send to a P.O. box or through a courier to hide your home address from Amazon. But I question the sanity of this. If you're worried about Google knowing your IP address or Amazon knowing your mailing address, it seems generally better to simply not use them. If you're using Gmail (or sending email to people who use Gmail), Google already knows a ton about you. They can probably guess where you live without knowing your IP. They can certainly guess where you live if you're ever searching for region-specific stores/parks/directions/etc. I suspect if you're browsing through a VPN regularly, Google has enough data to pick you out of the searches coming from the VPN's outbound IPs with fairly high confidence.
victorhooi 10y ago
Asking for a phone number seems pretty valid. The number of times people forget their password, or accidentally type it into a phishing site, or re-use passwords across different websites where one of them (e.g. Yahoo) get breached.... Without a recovery phone number, these people are hosed - and they've lost data, photos, contacts, email, their entire digital life etc. That's a pretty poor user experience. So most people are like - yeah, OK, that sounds reasonable, let me put a phone number I can access just in case somebody hacks my account. NB: I work for Google, but I don't speak for them here in any official capacity.
- divbit 10y ago
  > Asking for a phone number seems pretty valid. I agree with your reasoning that for the vast majority of casual users it is useful (and maybe gmail is only intended for casual users). Otoh, there are countries where you could be punished for speaking your mind via en e-mail account that is linked to you (say by phone number) or from that e-mail account being linked to you via your using it to sign up for another service. For example, in the US one could conceivably be punished (or at least face an expensive court battle) for publishing certain types of software see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernstein_v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernstein_v._United_States from an e-mail address linked to you
- omginternets 10y ago
  The security considerations are valid, but this is missing the point. The point is rather that google is in the business of selling personal information, and that telephone numbers are valuable personal information. As such, some people don't trust google with this information despite the valid pretext.

by divbit 10y ago

divbit 10y ago

(For those who are saying it is possible, they might already know who you are based on browser cache, ip etc. Try it in incognito on a vpn. I get this: http://imgur.com/a/Y5Cxq http://imgur.com/a/Y5Cxq

dpark 10y ago
That's probably the result of using a VPN. Google undoubtedly knows that lots of accounts registered through VPNs are spammy. I just registered billyjiminy123@gmail in a private browsing session and didn't get prompted. I even sent an email without being prompted for verification.
- divbit 10y ago
  /s/phone number/ip
  - dpark 10y ago
    Yes, Google can track my ip. I guess you should browse through tor if you're this worried about tracking. Google tracks IPs like Amazon tracks shipping addresses. It's kind of hard to deliver what you've requested if they don't have your address.
    - divbit 10y ago
      I can still get email through a vpn just like I can get packages at a p.o. box.
      - dpark 10y ago
        My point about the address comparison was that if you're using Google, you're asking them to send you data. Yes, you can route all requests through a VPN, just as you have send to a P.O. box or through a courier to hide your home address from Amazon. But I question the sanity of this. If you're worried about Google knowing your IP address or Amazon knowing your mailing address, it seems generally better to simply not use them. If you're using Gmail (or sending email to people who use Gmail), Google already knows a ton about you. They can probably guess where you live without knowing your IP. They can certainly guess where you live if you're ever searching for region-specific stores/parks/directions/etc. I suspect if you're browsing through a VPN regularly, Google has enough data to pick you out of the searches coming from the VPN's outbound IPs with fairly high confidence.

victorhooi 10y ago

Asking for a phone number seems pretty valid. The number of times people forget their password, or accidentally type it into a phishing site, or re-use passwords across different websites where one of them (e.g. Yahoo) get breached.... Without a recovery phone number, these people are hosed - and they've lost data, photos, contacts, email, their entire digital life etc. That's a pretty poor user experience. So most people are like - yeah, OK, that sounds reasonable, let me put a phone number I can access just in case somebody hacks my account. NB: I work for Google, but I don't speak for them here in any official capacity.

divbit 10y ago
> Asking for a phone number seems pretty valid. I agree with your reasoning that for the vast majority of casual users it is useful (and maybe gmail is only intended for casual users). Otoh, there are countries where you could be punished for speaking your mind via en e-mail account that is linked to you (say by phone number) or from that e-mail account being linked to you via your using it to sign up for another service. For example, in the US one could conceivably be punished (or at least face an expensive court battle) for publishing certain types of software see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernstein_v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernstein_v._United_States from an e-mail address linked to you
omginternets 10y ago
The security considerations are valid, but this is missing the point. The point is rather that google is in the business of selling personal information, and that telephone numbers are valuable personal information. As such, some people don't trust google with this information despite the valid pretext.