4 ms·

What about if they use Scheme instead? Or switch not from C/C++ to Java, but from Scheme to Python?

Locke1689 17y ago
Have a three-letter university in mind? ;)
jdp 17y ago
New Jersey Institute of Technology has recently switched from Java to Python. I remember seeing my classmates struggle with the syntax of Java rather than struggling with the actual problem, I'm interested to see the results of the switch.
hga 17y ago
Heh. Or sigh. And actually it was from Scheme to Python and Java. The software engineering course changed from CLU to Java a long time ago and that was fine, but the new course (6.005) that's a bridge between the intro "make neat things using Python" courses to it, that in theory tries to teach the bulk of what's in SICP, uses Java. For that purpose Java is not even wrong. MIT's EECS department panicked when enrollment crashed after the dot.com bubble burst (for the previous quarter century or so they had 2/5ths of the undergraduates (!!!)) and it was decided from on high to change the very nature of its CS foundation and to purge Scheme from the base curriculum. You can find Sussman's comments on this here and there; here's one paraphrase: http://muckandbrass.com/web/display/~cemerick/2009/03/24/Why%20MIT%20now%20uses%20python%20instead%20of%20scheme%20for%20its%20undergraduate%20CS%20program http://muckandbrass.com/web/display/~cemerick/2009/03/24/Why... Although I can't at the moment find the sharpest direct quote of him, very roughly, it's a change from understanding what's really going on to patching together libraries. Now, this is in the cause of building really interesting things, or that is my trying to put a positive gloss on it all and my impression of what it's actually accomplishing. If you're a pure CS type this is an unmitigated disaster ("So the reason, basically, is that software today is a train wreck, and you might as well embrace helplessness and random tinkering from the start? Horrifying." Andy Hefner, http://www.wisdomandwonder.com/link/2110/why-mit-switched-from-scheme-to-python#comment-310 http://www.wisdomandwonder.com/link/2110/why-mit-switched-fr...) and you should go to one of the other top schools like Berkeley, where they still teach SICP. If you want to go out into the world and make cool stuff, it's probably still pretty good to great.

Have a three-letter university in mind? ;)

jdp 17y ago

New Jersey Institute of Technology has recently switched from Java to Python. I remember seeing my classmates struggle with the syntax of Java rather than struggling with the actual problem, I'm interested to see the results of the switch.

hga 17y ago

Heh. Or sigh. And actually it was from Scheme to Python and Java. The software engineering course changed from CLU to Java a long time ago and that was fine, but the new course (6.005) that's a bridge between the intro "make neat things using Python" courses to it, that in theory tries to teach the bulk of what's in SICP, uses Java. For that purpose Java is not even wrong. MIT's EECS department panicked when enrollment crashed after the dot.com bubble burst (for the previous quarter century or so they had 2/5ths of the undergraduates (!!!)) and it was decided from on high to change the very nature of its CS foundation and to purge Scheme from the base curriculum. You can find Sussman's comments on this here and there; here's one paraphrase: http://muckandbrass.com/web/display/~cemerick/2009/03/24/Why%20MIT%20now%20uses%20python%20instead%20of%20scheme%20for%20its%20undergraduate%20CS%20program http://muckandbrass.com/web/display/~cemerick/2009/03/24/Why... Although I can't at the moment find the sharpest direct quote of him, very roughly, it's a change from understanding what's really going on to patching together libraries. Now, this is in the cause of building really interesting things, or that is my trying to put a positive gloss on it all and my impression of what it's actually accomplishing. If you're a pure CS type this is an unmitigated disaster ("So the reason, basically, is that software today is a train wreck, and you might as well embrace helplessness and random tinkering from the start? Horrifying." Andy Hefner, http://www.wisdomandwonder.com/link/2110/why-mit-switched-from-scheme-to-python#comment-310 http://www.wisdomandwonder.com/link/2110/why-mit-switched-fr...) and you should go to one of the other top schools like Berkeley, where they still teach SICP. If you want to go out into the world and make cool stuff, it's probably still pretty good to great.