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Rift and Hololens. I get that there is an immediate "Wow" factor, but then I wander off and look at the real world, and think "Holy crap!". They are good, I g

by socmag 10y ago

Rift and Hololens. I get that there is an immediate "Wow" factor, but then I wander off and look at the real world, and think "Holy crap!". They are good, I get that... Not great but something. I don't understand the purpose though. The best virtual reality experiences I've ever had have been between the pages of a book, or induced by psychotropic substances. If they can fix the latency, resolution and FOV issues, reduce the size of the headsets and make them cost $150, I can see that a certain sector of people might sit at home on the couch and do whatever they do. But moving around with those things on seems like an accident waiting to happen, even more so if they get the display technology right. For AR, I can see it as a technology used in business a lot more than for the consumer. That said, as one of the comments in the article mentioned... would be great to ditch my monitors and have an ultra wide panoramic coding experience. But again, that is more of a business application. I really struggle with the fatigue aspects. And yes you are right, the phone stuff is abysmal.

zamalek 10y ago
> For AR, I can see it as a technology used in business a lot more than for the consumer. I'll be the first to criticize VR for being expensive, but the Hololens is absurd - you'd think that Microsoft would have paid attention to the Glass stillbirth. Oculus pulled off $600 devkits, which gave VR a fighting chance. AR has no fighting chance right now, not at that price, not with so few devs making apps (and many of the issues in the article still apply).
- iLoch 10y ago
  It's hardly fair to compare the technology in the Oculus to what's in HoloLens. The HoloLens is an x86 PC that fits on your head and has 5 cameras, 4 microphones and a depth sensor and lasts several hours on a single charge (which is important because it doesn't need to be plugged into a $2000 PC.) I also haven't seen anyone get sick from HoloLens or trip over anything while using one. I wouldn't be surprised if the price point of HoloLens is absurdly high for a very specific reason: to stop people from thinking it's consumer technology - it isn't - not yet. And if that's Microsoft's strategy then I'd say it's a smart move. As a HoloLens developer you have to focus your efforts on enterprise and practical applications. Not gimmicks, because there's no money in that.
- fsloth 10y ago
  Hololens is not for consumers. It's for businesses which benefit from any off-the-shelf AR, e.g. construction, and Hololens is very much appreciated in that field. From my POV in providing software for construction industry Hololens has huge potential. Will it become a just a fad, or an irreplaceable tool, remains to be seen.
- cr0sh 10y ago
  Personally, I don't look at current consumer VR as expensive. But this is because I have the perspective of having played around with DIY VR back in the mid-1990s. Back then, the only way you could have gotten anything -close- to what we have now, would have been to drop about $50k on hardware. Even then, it still would have been lacking. Today, you can get a much better experience in your home for under $5k. To me, that's astounding. Sadly, we still don't know what to do with it - beyond games and a few other gimmicky things. There has yet to be that "must have" application for VR - we don't have a "photoshop" or "desktop publishing" or whatever you want to call it application yet - at least for the consumer. For the consumer, it's mainly about video games, and maybe some kind of "social VR" - but that's about it, for now. Those applications (except for the "hardcore") don't justify the price. I'm not sure there is an app that could.
fsloth 10y ago
"Rift and Hololens." Tiltbrush on the Vive absolutely blew my mind. I could paint in the air and use the wide brushstrokes as an immediate and intuitive 3D modeling tool. And then walk around my scuplture, etc. I would have to categorize the experience to the same slot where building snowmen, igloos, painting, etc goes - ie. creative fun with aesthetically pleasing results. The difference is that modeling on on the Tiltbrush/Vive was so effortless I literally felt I was operating at the speed of thought and intuition, instead of figuring out what to do, then work the aspect for several minutes, then move onwards. Consumer side I agree, I've not seen anything I would call transformative.
- AndrewKemendo 10y ago
  What do you mean that it "blew your mind?" Do you experience life differently than you did before? I hear this a lot but when I relate it to my experience of the same thing (in this case VR) I would never explain it as "mind blowing."
  - zamalek 10y ago
    What demo/experience were you shown? In my case it was Elite Dangerous and Universe Simulator 2. The latter is particularly mind-blowing - within the same spectrum as "the pale blue dot" but to a far, far, greater degree. Tilt Brush has an extreme fun factor - if you own a Vive then you probably want Tilt Brush too, but I'd hardly call it mind-blowing. The trend I've personally found with demoing VR is that the less interactive it is, the more likely it is to "wow" a newcomer.
    - AndrewKemendo 10y ago
      I've seen pretty much everything in VR/AR.
  - fsloth 10y ago
    "mind blowing" in the sense that I could sculpt a life size figure in front of me with mere digital brush strokes. To produce anything like it using analogue methods (snow, clay, cardboard, wood, etc.) would have been painstaking and would have taken hours, and would have required raw materials and dedicated workspace. This is specific to Vive, with the short latency and the fact that I could walk around my sculpture. This is a major difference to VR platform such as Oculus where the view point is fixed. The only time anything digitally produced has felt as tangible has been when I've ordered 3D prints of my models. I think you need to create something on the medium to experience this exhilaration. Not just walk around someone else's scene. Or, take the general complaint that learning 3D modeling is really hard. Well, with this paradigm is completely changed with Tiltbrush. That said, it's not yet a production ready modeler. "Do you experience life differently than you did before?" I think the expression "Life changing" is usually used to describe traumatic experiences more than anything positive. That said I've felt a moderate urge to purchase a VR rig ever since.
pfranz 10y ago
I think motion controllers and room scale make the difference. Usually it's Google Tiltbrush where it clicks for people. I think Valve's Robot Repair also did it for me. Walking over and slowly opening a drawer was really immersive. I still think it's missing the killer app that'll make it stick. It's too low resolution for a virtual monitor and the fatigue would set in well before lunchtime. I've seen a few very niche businesses where VR will probably change things. Room scale VR really helps with visualizing something; scale and shape. One of the car companies is using VR to prototype interiors--this replaces foam core, glue, and paint. I also think it'll do well in architectural visualization if the tools and talent to generate content are reasonably priced.
Lewton 10y ago
Fix what latency? Resolution and FOV, yeah. Quite a way to go. But the latency of modern headsets is imperceptible. And it really is a shame you haven't tried Vive roomscale. 9/10 people I've demoed it to all agreed that it was immersive as hell. >The best virtual reality experiences I've ever had have been [...] induced by psychotropic substances. https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/3nxyei/oculus_rift_formula_one_on_lsdlsd/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/3nxyei/oculus_rift_f... ;)
- socmag 10y ago
  I'll see about trying the Vive. And thanks for the other link :P

by socmag 10y ago

zamalek 10y ago

> For AR, I can see it as a technology used in business a lot more than for the consumer. I'll be the first to criticize VR for being expensive, but the Hololens is absurd - you'd think that Microsoft would have paid attention to the Glass stillbirth. Oculus pulled off $600 devkits, which gave VR a fighting chance. AR has no fighting chance right now, not at that price, not with so few devs making apps (and many of the issues in the article still apply).

iLoch 10y ago
It's hardly fair to compare the technology in the Oculus to what's in HoloLens. The HoloLens is an x86 PC that fits on your head and has 5 cameras, 4 microphones and a depth sensor and lasts several hours on a single charge (which is important because it doesn't need to be plugged into a $2000 PC.) I also haven't seen anyone get sick from HoloLens or trip over anything while using one. I wouldn't be surprised if the price point of HoloLens is absurdly high for a very specific reason: to stop people from thinking it's consumer technology - it isn't - not yet. And if that's Microsoft's strategy then I'd say it's a smart move. As a HoloLens developer you have to focus your efforts on enterprise and practical applications. Not gimmicks, because there's no money in that.
fsloth 10y ago
Hololens is not for consumers. It's for businesses which benefit from any off-the-shelf AR, e.g. construction, and Hololens is very much appreciated in that field. From my POV in providing software for construction industry Hololens has huge potential. Will it become a just a fad, or an irreplaceable tool, remains to be seen.
cr0sh 10y ago
Personally, I don't look at current consumer VR as expensive. But this is because I have the perspective of having played around with DIY VR back in the mid-1990s. Back then, the only way you could have gotten anything -close- to what we have now, would have been to drop about $50k on hardware. Even then, it still would have been lacking. Today, you can get a much better experience in your home for under $5k. To me, that's astounding. Sadly, we still don't know what to do with it - beyond games and a few other gimmicky things. There has yet to be that "must have" application for VR - we don't have a "photoshop" or "desktop publishing" or whatever you want to call it application yet - at least for the consumer. For the consumer, it's mainly about video games, and maybe some kind of "social VR" - but that's about it, for now. Those applications (except for the "hardcore") don't justify the price. I'm not sure there is an app that could.

fsloth 10y ago

"Rift and Hololens." Tiltbrush on the Vive absolutely blew my mind. I could paint in the air and use the wide brushstrokes as an immediate and intuitive 3D modeling tool. And then walk around my scuplture, etc. I would have to categorize the experience to the same slot where building snowmen, igloos, painting, etc goes - ie. creative fun with aesthetically pleasing results. The difference is that modeling on on the Tiltbrush/Vive was so effortless I literally felt I was operating at the speed of thought and intuition, instead of figuring out what to do, then work the aspect for several minutes, then move onwards. Consumer side I agree, I've not seen anything I would call transformative.

AndrewKemendo 10y ago
What do you mean that it "blew your mind?" Do you experience life differently than you did before? I hear this a lot but when I relate it to my experience of the same thing (in this case VR) I would never explain it as "mind blowing."
- zamalek 10y ago
  What demo/experience were you shown? In my case it was Elite Dangerous and Universe Simulator 2. The latter is particularly mind-blowing - within the same spectrum as "the pale blue dot" but to a far, far, greater degree. Tilt Brush has an extreme fun factor - if you own a Vive then you probably want Tilt Brush too, but I'd hardly call it mind-blowing. The trend I've personally found with demoing VR is that the less interactive it is, the more likely it is to "wow" a newcomer.
  - AndrewKemendo 10y ago
    I've seen pretty much everything in VR/AR.
- fsloth 10y ago
  "mind blowing" in the sense that I could sculpt a life size figure in front of me with mere digital brush strokes. To produce anything like it using analogue methods (snow, clay, cardboard, wood, etc.) would have been painstaking and would have taken hours, and would have required raw materials and dedicated workspace. This is specific to Vive, with the short latency and the fact that I could walk around my sculpture. This is a major difference to VR platform such as Oculus where the view point is fixed. The only time anything digitally produced has felt as tangible has been when I've ordered 3D prints of my models. I think you need to create something on the medium to experience this exhilaration. Not just walk around someone else's scene. Or, take the general complaint that learning 3D modeling is really hard. Well, with this paradigm is completely changed with Tiltbrush. That said, it's not yet a production ready modeler. "Do you experience life differently than you did before?" I think the expression "Life changing" is usually used to describe traumatic experiences more than anything positive. That said I've felt a moderate urge to purchase a VR rig ever since.

pfranz 10y ago

I think motion controllers and room scale make the difference. Usually it's Google Tiltbrush where it clicks for people. I think Valve's Robot Repair also did it for me. Walking over and slowly opening a drawer was really immersive. I still think it's missing the killer app that'll make it stick. It's too low resolution for a virtual monitor and the fatigue would set in well before lunchtime. I've seen a few very niche businesses where VR will probably change things. Room scale VR really helps with visualizing something; scale and shape. One of the car companies is using VR to prototype interiors--this replaces foam core, glue, and paint. I also think it'll do well in architectural visualization if the tools and talent to generate content are reasonably priced.

Lewton 10y ago

Fix what latency? Resolution and FOV, yeah. Quite a way to go. But the latency of modern headsets is imperceptible. And it really is a shame you haven't tried Vive roomscale. 9/10 people I've demoed it to all agreed that it was immersive as hell. >The best virtual reality experiences I've ever had have been [...] induced by psychotropic substances. https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/3nxyei/oculus_rift_formula_one_on_lsdlsd/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/3nxyei/oculus_rift_f... ;)

socmag 10y ago
I'll see about trying the Vive. And thanks for the other link :P