4 ms·

Medicare is fine, some social security facets are fine, such as disability. Social security as a general retirement plan? Shitty program. What it should be AT

by ryhamz 10y ago

Medicare is fine, some social security facets are fine, such as disability. Social security as a general retirement plan? Shitty program. What it should be AT MOST: mandated investment in a retirement account that you can't touch. Although I would prefer to not even have policy here at all. This is only necessary because people are by and large shit with money and will not save without being forced to. What is is: take money from workers and transfer it directly. It's not even invested to generate additional wealth.

travi5 10y ago
The disability program is hurting society. You can get disability for having autism. Once they are on it, they have incentives to stay on it forever. If they make even one dollar working they lose it all, so they make extra cash under the table through committing fraud, selling drugs, etc. No one can sue them and take it away, so they do things like go without insurance, buy things on credit with no intent to pay, titling their car in someone else's name, and hundreds of other tricks they learn in their new 'job'. By day they can do whatever they want. People who work have to pay not only to sustain them but also for the damage that they are causing directly to them.
- BuckRogers 10y ago
  Seconded. That stood out to me too in his post. Disability seems to be widely abused in the western world. I'm for social welfare, but I'm not for mismanagement and abuse. Disability as it exists today is a concern that needs to be addressed.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    Everyone is for rugged individualism until they're incapacitated. Good luck.
    - BuckRogers 10y ago
      I think you'll need the good luck with the reading comprehension displayed here. I'm as for disability assistance as much as anyone you'll find.
  - efnx 10y ago
    You guys have the advantage of being able to work. Your minds and bodies are healthy. Man up and take care of those less fortunate, even if it means a minority game the system.
    - travi5 10y ago
      Your mind will change once a "disabled" driver with no insurance runs their car into you at 50 mph and gets off scott free while you are stuck with the bill and repercussions. I know someone who is literally blind and he works just fine. Even know a guy with ALS who can barely move who still works. I could probably qualify for legit disability as well but I choose not to be a degenerate leech and actually work.
      - toomuchtodo 10y ago
        > I know someone who is literally blind and he works just fine. Even know a guy with ALS who can barely move who still works. > but I choose not to be a degenerate leech and actually work. Your viewpoint is disappointing. It is not okay that someone who has ALS must work. You are not a leech if you are physically disabled and cannot work because of it. I'm not even mad man, I just feel sorry for you. Push the keyboard away and spend time cultivating some empathy.
      - coldtea 10y ago
        Yeah, the Nazi's had a good idea, put those leeching cripples and ALS to forced labour camps /sarcasm
    - BuckRogers 10y ago
      That's not at all what I meant, attacking the legitimately handicapped. You should be ashamed of yourself taking it out of context on purpose just to self-righteously complain.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >The disability program is hurting society. You can get disability for having autism. Autism can be a severe disability, not just the mild "geeky asperger" type. One could literaly not be able to communicate at all...
toomuchtodo 10y ago
> What is is: take money from workers and transfer it directly. It's not even invested to generate additional wealth. Its invested, by law, in the safest asset known to man: Special issue US treasuries that can always be redeemed at face value (principal + interest), which come ahead of general issue treasuries. "By law, income to the trust funds must be invested, on a daily basis, in securities guaranteed as to both principal and interest by the Federal government. All securities held by the trust funds are "special issues" of the United States Treasury. Such securities are available only to the trust funds. In the past, the trust funds have held marketable Treasury securities, which are available to the general public. Unlike marketable securities, special issues can be redeemed at any time at face value. Marketable securities are subject to the forces of the open market and may suffer a loss, or enjoy a gain, if sold before maturity. Investment in special issues gives the trust funds the same flexibility as holding cash." https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/fundFAQ.html https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/fundFAQ.html Why not invest in bonds or stocks? The amount the US government would need to invest would disproportionally move markets, but most importantly, the losses (when they occur) would be backstopped by the US taxpayer. There is no reason to needlessly invest the Social Security trust fund in equities when its most important asset is the ongoing ability to collect taxes (equities can go to zero; the ability to tax isn't going away under almost any circumstance, barring a complete collapse of the US government). EDIT: > The treasuries are just an IOU in legal form. All debts are IOUs in legal form. The reason the US government gets such low rates is because the market believes they're more likely to pay the debt back then Joe Schmoe. And the market would be right, which is why capital scrambles into treasuries at the first sign of global financial trouble.
- MR4D 10y ago
  "Invested". Only the US govt can use that term and mean "borrow" instead. The treasuries are just an IOU in legal form. Given the high debt level in the US, I wouldn't think of the literal term "invested."

by ryhamz 10y ago

travi5 10y ago

The disability program is hurting society. You can get disability for having autism. Once they are on it, they have incentives to stay on it forever. If they make even one dollar working they lose it all, so they make extra cash under the table through committing fraud, selling drugs, etc. No one can sue them and take it away, so they do things like go without insurance, buy things on credit with no intent to pay, titling their car in someone else's name, and hundreds of other tricks they learn in their new 'job'. By day they can do whatever they want. People who work have to pay not only to sustain them but also for the damage that they are causing directly to them.

BuckRogers 10y ago
Seconded. That stood out to me too in his post. Disability seems to be widely abused in the western world. I'm for social welfare, but I'm not for mismanagement and abuse. Disability as it exists today is a concern that needs to be addressed.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Everyone is for rugged individualism until they're incapacitated. Good luck.
  - BuckRogers 10y ago
    I think you'll need the good luck with the reading comprehension displayed here. I'm as for disability assistance as much as anyone you'll find.
- efnx 10y ago
  You guys have the advantage of being able to work. Your minds and bodies are healthy. Man up and take care of those less fortunate, even if it means a minority game the system.
  - travi5 10y ago
    Your mind will change once a "disabled" driver with no insurance runs their car into you at 50 mph and gets off scott free while you are stuck with the bill and repercussions. I know someone who is literally blind and he works just fine. Even know a guy with ALS who can barely move who still works. I could probably qualify for legit disability as well but I choose not to be a degenerate leech and actually work.
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      > I know someone who is literally blind and he works just fine. Even know a guy with ALS who can barely move who still works. > but I choose not to be a degenerate leech and actually work. Your viewpoint is disappointing. It is not okay that someone who has ALS must work. You are not a leech if you are physically disabled and cannot work because of it. I'm not even mad man, I just feel sorry for you. Push the keyboard away and spend time cultivating some empathy.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      Yeah, the Nazi's had a good idea, put those leeching cripples and ALS to forced labour camps /sarcasm
  - BuckRogers 10y ago
    That's not at all what I meant, attacking the legitimately handicapped. You should be ashamed of yourself taking it out of context on purpose just to self-righteously complain.
coldtea 10y ago
>The disability program is hurting society. You can get disability for having autism. Autism can be a severe disability, not just the mild "geeky asperger" type. One could literaly not be able to communicate at all...

toomuchtodo 10y ago

> What is is: take money from workers and transfer it directly. It's not even invested to generate additional wealth. Its invested, by law, in the safest asset known to man: Special issue US treasuries that can always be redeemed at face value (principal + interest), which come ahead of general issue treasuries. "By law, income to the trust funds must be invested, on a daily basis, in securities guaranteed as to both principal and interest by the Federal government. All securities held by the trust funds are "special issues" of the United States Treasury. Such securities are available only to the trust funds. In the past, the trust funds have held marketable Treasury securities, which are available to the general public. Unlike marketable securities, special issues can be redeemed at any time at face value. Marketable securities are subject to the forces of the open market and may suffer a loss, or enjoy a gain, if sold before maturity. Investment in special issues gives the trust funds the same flexibility as holding cash." https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/fundFAQ.html https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/fundFAQ.html Why not invest in bonds or stocks? The amount the US government would need to invest would disproportionally move markets, but most importantly, the losses (when they occur) would be backstopped by the US taxpayer. There is no reason to needlessly invest the Social Security trust fund in equities when its most important asset is the ongoing ability to collect taxes (equities can go to zero; the ability to tax isn't going away under almost any circumstance, barring a complete collapse of the US government). EDIT: > The treasuries are just an IOU in legal form. All debts are IOUs in legal form. The reason the US government gets such low rates is because the market believes they're more likely to pay the debt back then Joe Schmoe. And the market would be right, which is why capital scrambles into treasuries at the first sign of global financial trouble.

MR4D 10y ago
"Invested". Only the US govt can use that term and mean "borrow" instead. The treasuries are just an IOU in legal form. Given the high debt level in the US, I wouldn't think of the literal term "invested."