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> If it's really for 5-10 years from now, they should release it in 5-10 years when it's fully baked. You can't go dark and build a product for 5-10 years and

by dpark 10y ago

> If it's really for 5-10 years from now, they should release it in 5-10 years when it's fully baked. You can't go dark and build a product for 5-10 years and then drop it on the market. While you're "baking" for years the market will change around you and you'll find that you built the wrong thing and someone else launched early and took the whole market with iterative improvements. > Poorly thought out, badly implemented compromised systems do not transform into great products. Sure they do. There's a reason people talk about minimum viable products and worse is better. You cannot build the perfect product in isolation. You build something good enough, get to the market, and keep making it better. Disclosure: MSFT employee

simonh 10y ago
But as so explained the example given - MS tablet computers or 'pen computing' shows the opposite. The modern Windows Phone OS would never have happened if Apple hadn't brought out the iPhone. They still be iterating on Windows Mobile. They had to throw out every bit if mobile tech they had and go back to square one. That's almost impossible to do on your own initiative if you've already got an existing viable product. Another counter-example. What ever happened to Myspace and Orkut? What did their first mover advantage buy them? A legacy platform that held them back.
- Const-me 10y ago
  > throw out every bit if mobile tech they had WP7 run on Windows CE kernel, same as Windows Mobile. It uses embedded version of .NET and Silverlight, both pre-existing. Even the touchscreen friendly UI language (once called Metro) existed before windows phone, the first product was Zune. The only bits they had to throw out is marketing bits, branding, logos, that kind of BS. The tech however is an evolution, not "back to square one".
  - simonh 10y ago
    Windows Phone 7 was two major versions ago, and its CE base was ditched with WP 10.
    - Const-me 10y ago
      That is correct. But you mentioned Windows Mobile, so I presumed by “back to square one” you meant WM 6.5 -> WP 7.0 transition. They indeed replaced the OS kernel while transitioning from WP7 to WP8. However, they inherited the rest of tech things from WP7. Both .NET and Silverlight were almost same as in WP7, they released the new non-Silverlight UI platform later with WP 8.1 update. Same applies to GUI design, marketplace and other online services. They even inherited non-tech things as well, i.e. logo and branding. You see, at no point they were starting things from scratch. Instead, they released new generations of products largely based on the stuff they already had developed and tested.
- dpark 10y ago
  What about the products that won because they released "too" early and iterated? YouTube, Twitter, Windows? Windows phone is an interesting example for you to choose. Do you imagine that the old Windows Mobile team would have produced an iPhone if they'd just kept working quietly? Of course not. No amount of baking would turn Windows CE into an iPhone or even the current Windows Phone. On the other hand, Android released super early when it felt junky, but they iterated repeatedly and eventually beat Apple in market share.

by dpark 10y ago

simonh 10y ago

But as so explained the example given - MS tablet computers or 'pen computing' shows the opposite. The modern Windows Phone OS would never have happened if Apple hadn't brought out the iPhone. They still be iterating on Windows Mobile. They had to throw out every bit if mobile tech they had and go back to square one. That's almost impossible to do on your own initiative if you've already got an existing viable product. Another counter-example. What ever happened to Myspace and Orkut? What did their first mover advantage buy them? A legacy platform that held them back.

Const-me 10y ago
> throw out every bit if mobile tech they had WP7 run on Windows CE kernel, same as Windows Mobile. It uses embedded version of .NET and Silverlight, both pre-existing. Even the touchscreen friendly UI language (once called Metro) existed before windows phone, the first product was Zune. The only bits they had to throw out is marketing bits, branding, logos, that kind of BS. The tech however is an evolution, not "back to square one".
- simonh 10y ago
  Windows Phone 7 was two major versions ago, and its CE base was ditched with WP 10.
  - Const-me 10y ago
    That is correct. But you mentioned Windows Mobile, so I presumed by “back to square one” you meant WM 6.5 -> WP 7.0 transition. They indeed replaced the OS kernel while transitioning from WP7 to WP8. However, they inherited the rest of tech things from WP7. Both .NET and Silverlight were almost same as in WP7, they released the new non-Silverlight UI platform later with WP 8.1 update. Same applies to GUI design, marketplace and other online services. They even inherited non-tech things as well, i.e. logo and branding. You see, at no point they were starting things from scratch. Instead, they released new generations of products largely based on the stuff they already had developed and tested.
dpark 10y ago
What about the products that won because they released "too" early and iterated? YouTube, Twitter, Windows? Windows phone is an interesting example for you to choose. Do you imagine that the old Windows Mobile team would have produced an iPhone if they'd just kept working quietly? Of course not. No amount of baking would turn Windows CE into an iPhone or even the current Windows Phone. On the other hand, Android released super early when it felt junky, but they iterated repeatedly and eventually beat Apple in market share.