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They raced to the bottom with their hallowed store brands, cut corners to make margins and in the end shattered the value of the name of appliances like Kenmore

They raced to the bottom with their hallowed store brands, cut corners to make margins and in the end shattered the value of the name of appliances like Kenmore or tools like Craftsman. If you've built a brand on the idea of durability and reliability, and then build shoddy products that coast on the reputation, that reputation goes away and leaves you with a brand that no one wants to buy. I've been looking at a new fridge, and I'd consider a Chinese Haier over a Sears Kenmore, ceteris paribus. It used to be that Sears was mighty because of the catalog; then they were mighty because of logistics; then they were mighty because of the iron-clad house brands. Now Amazon is the new catalog, Walmart beats them on logistics, and their brands are mud. Sears has nothing. You'll see a Sears bankruptcy within 5 years.

roflchoppa 10y ago
I picked up some craftsman metric/SAE box and open's the other day from the discount section, the build quality is not bad at all. I would not compare it to Snap-On, but a whole other tier than that of HF.
- mrits 10y ago
  That was my first time to ever read that. I lost it at the eye patch.
- douche 10y ago
  You really have to be careful these days, though. Sometimes you find stuff that is close to the old Craftsman quality, other times it is much shoddier. The consistency isn't there, in my experience.
- 91bananas 10y ago
  Recently I've given up on craftsman all together. Harbor freight owns up to being Chinese junk, but still gives a life time guarantee on and hand tools now. So if they're half the cost of craftsman but break and replace the same, why buy their name brand Chinese junk when I can buy generic stuff from probably the same factory?
  - roflchoppa 10y ago
    I think douche replied with a well comment below, garage sales might be the best.HF is not bad, but sometime I find that even new CM are engineered better, like the HF box n open can't hit the exhaust manifold nuts on my car, but a CF one is able to do it due to the slight angle from the open part. Idk always small things you find. Hopefully craftsman will still be around.
  - manyxcxi 10y ago
    That's pretty much where I've been on them for the last few years. I've got a bunch of old inherited Craftsman stuff that's just as good or smooth as expensive stuff is brand new today. If I'm not investing in something I need to be very precise or efficient, it's harbor freight I go. Perfect example, my angle grinder was $30 from HF like 5 years ago and it's still humming along- I could've dropped $150+ easy going with a name brand. If it's a really nice woodworking tool (like a block plane or chisel), I go direct to the specialized brands. If it's something general but I want a 'nicer' or more reliable product, I'll go to the big box store and pick up Kobalt, Milwaukee, or DeWalt- mostly because that's already what I have.
    - justanyone 10y ago
      REPLACE any Craftsman that shows wear. I had some sockets from 20+ years ago, some were rusted (yeah, it happens, sometimes my fault sometimes not). So, I packed em up, walked into the Sears tools dept., and exchanged them, like 20+ of them, one-for-one with new sockets. BEAUTIFUL, now I have new sockets, labeled more clearly, for free. And, if they ever rust again, I'll repeat the process.
  - syshum 10y ago
    My tool buying methodolty is 1. Buy Harbor Freight Version.... 2. If a break the Harbor Freight tool, then I will look at a SnapOn, Dewalt, Ridged, or other Contractor/Professional Brand I have very fews tools in the #2 category...
    - mikestew 10y ago
YZF 10y ago
HP did something similar, from quality brand to race to the bottom cheap. Maybe there's just so much value you can extract out of quality.
- binarysolo 10y ago
  The problem with quality is that short term extractions of value for shareholders invariably drops long term value. :(
  - gozur88 10y ago
    It's not necessarily about "short term extractions of value". Sometimes you can't charge what quality costs because people won't pay it. In that case you have no choice but to compete in a lower quality tier.
PhantomGremlin 10y ago
I've been looking at a new fridge, and I'd consider a Chinese Haier over a Sears Kenmore, ceteris paribus. We've been buying most of our appliances from Sears. We purchased a Kenmore refrigerator about a year ago. The thing to remember is that Sears doesn't build refrigerators, it simply puts the Kenmore name on them. Our refrigerator had a "made in USA" sticker on it. It was built either by Whirlpool or by Amana (same thing). I like the new fridge better than the previous GE we had, but of course the book is yet to be written on its long-term dependability. With Sears you must buy only when they are having a periodic sale. They often discount specific appliances as much as 30% or 40% during those sales. In comparison, at the time Costco was selling a down-featured version of our refrigerator for considerably more money than the Sears sale price. Also Sears will give you extras during these sales, e.g. free 1-year financing, free delivery, etc. YMMV
- maxerickson 10y ago
  There's no such thing as free financing. There might not be a way around the surcharge they put in place for paying up front, but that's not free financing, it's exploiting the fact that people are generally uninformed to charge more for a less expensive transaction.
TekMol 10y ago
> You'll see a Sears bankruptcy within 5 years. Or it might be the most valuable company on the planet. Remember Apple in the 90s? They were lagging behind in technology, design and usability. Now look at Apple today.
- hisham_hm 10y ago
  Apple was never lacking in quality. Even in the 90s, what they did, they did well. Even at its lowest point, it was still respected as a desktop publishing platform.
  - bb88 10y ago
    > Apple was never lacking in quality. Sorry, but I'm calling bs on that. From Wikipedia [1]: "At the time, the media viewed the problems with the PowerBook 5300 series as yet another example of Apple's decline.[4][5]" [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_5300 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_5300
TekMol 10y ago
> You'll see a Sears bankruptcy within 5 years. Or it might be the most valuable company of the planet. Remember Apple in the 90s? They were lagging behind in technology, design and usability. Now look at Apple today.

roflchoppa 10y ago

I picked up some craftsman metric/SAE box and open's the other day from the discount section, the build quality is not bad at all. I would not compare it to Snap-On, but a whole other tier than that of HF.

mrits 10y ago
That was my first time to ever read that. I lost it at the eye patch.
douche 10y ago
You really have to be careful these days, though. Sometimes you find stuff that is close to the old Craftsman quality, other times it is much shoddier. The consistency isn't there, in my experience.
91bananas 10y ago
Recently I've given up on craftsman all together. Harbor freight owns up to being Chinese junk, but still gives a life time guarantee on and hand tools now. So if they're half the cost of craftsman but break and replace the same, why buy their name brand Chinese junk when I can buy generic stuff from probably the same factory?
- roflchoppa 10y ago
  I think douche replied with a well comment below, garage sales might be the best.HF is not bad, but sometime I find that even new CM are engineered better, like the HF box n open can't hit the exhaust manifold nuts on my car, but a CF one is able to do it due to the slight angle from the open part. Idk always small things you find. Hopefully craftsman will still be around.
- manyxcxi 10y ago
  That's pretty much where I've been on them for the last few years. I've got a bunch of old inherited Craftsman stuff that's just as good or smooth as expensive stuff is brand new today. If I'm not investing in something I need to be very precise or efficient, it's harbor freight I go. Perfect example, my angle grinder was $30 from HF like 5 years ago and it's still humming along- I could've dropped $150+ easy going with a name brand. If it's a really nice woodworking tool (like a block plane or chisel), I go direct to the specialized brands. If it's something general but I want a 'nicer' or more reliable product, I'll go to the big box store and pick up Kobalt, Milwaukee, or DeWalt- mostly because that's already what I have.
  - justanyone 10y ago
    REPLACE any Craftsman that shows wear. I had some sockets from 20+ years ago, some were rusted (yeah, it happens, sometimes my fault sometimes not). So, I packed em up, walked into the Sears tools dept., and exchanged them, like 20+ of them, one-for-one with new sockets. BEAUTIFUL, now I have new sockets, labeled more clearly, for free. And, if they ever rust again, I'll repeat the process.
- syshum 10y ago
  My tool buying methodolty is 1. Buy Harbor Freight Version.... 2. If a break the Harbor Freight tool, then I will look at a SnapOn, Dewalt, Ridged, or other Contractor/Professional Brand I have very fews tools in the #2 category...
  - mikestew 10y ago

YZF 10y ago

HP did something similar, from quality brand to race to the bottom cheap. Maybe there's just so much value you can extract out of quality.

binarysolo 10y ago
The problem with quality is that short term extractions of value for shareholders invariably drops long term value. :(
- gozur88 10y ago
  It's not necessarily about "short term extractions of value". Sometimes you can't charge what quality costs because people won't pay it. In that case you have no choice but to compete in a lower quality tier.

PhantomGremlin 10y ago

I've been looking at a new fridge, and I'd consider a Chinese Haier over a Sears Kenmore, ceteris paribus. We've been buying most of our appliances from Sears. We purchased a Kenmore refrigerator about a year ago. The thing to remember is that Sears doesn't build refrigerators, it simply puts the Kenmore name on them. Our refrigerator had a "made in USA" sticker on it. It was built either by Whirlpool or by Amana (same thing). I like the new fridge better than the previous GE we had, but of course the book is yet to be written on its long-term dependability. With Sears you must buy only when they are having a periodic sale. They often discount specific appliances as much as 30% or 40% during those sales. In comparison, at the time Costco was selling a down-featured version of our refrigerator for considerably more money than the Sears sale price. Also Sears will give you extras during these sales, e.g. free 1-year financing, free delivery, etc. YMMV

maxerickson 10y ago
There's no such thing as free financing. There might not be a way around the surcharge they put in place for paying up front, but that's not free financing, it's exploiting the fact that people are generally uninformed to charge more for a less expensive transaction.

TekMol 10y ago

> You'll see a Sears bankruptcy within 5 years. Or it might be the most valuable company on the planet. Remember Apple in the 90s? They were lagging behind in technology, design and usability. Now look at Apple today.

hisham_hm 10y ago
Apple was never lacking in quality. Even in the 90s, what they did, they did well. Even at its lowest point, it was still respected as a desktop publishing platform.
- bb88 10y ago
  > Apple was never lacking in quality. Sorry, but I'm calling bs on that. From Wikipedia [1]: "At the time, the media viewed the problems with the PowerBook 5300 series as yet another example of Apple's decline.[4][5]" [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_5300 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_5300

TekMol 10y ago

> You'll see a Sears bankruptcy within 5 years. Or it might be the most valuable company of the planet. Remember Apple in the 90s? They were lagging behind in technology, design and usability. Now look at Apple today.