5 ms·

"So what is Microsoft's plan, now it seems they're just throwing stuff on the walls and to see what sticks." Yes, and this is exactly what they should be doing

"So what is Microsoft's plan, now it seems they're just throwing stuff on the walls and to see what sticks." Yes, and this is exactly what they should be doing. In some ways, it is what Microsoft has often done in the past. Remember Windows Tablet circa 2004? It may have been a complete failure, but it shows Microsoft was looking toward and understood the future. Unfortunately it came at a time when Microsoft was not executing quite as well as they are now (in most areas I'd say - up for debate). Many comments in the parent thread are about how this will lead to 'sub-par' laptops and 'AR isn't good enough', but they aren't building this for today, they are building this for 5-10 years from now. It may be released next year (I hope so), but it will take a while for interaction and hardware and possibly social norms to catch-up. Yes, this is what Microsoft should be doing now. Try 1,000,000 things, get 100 out into the market, see what people respond to. This is what we tell start-ups to do all the time, and we suggest that big corporates should imitate start-ups, but then we bludgeon them when they put out an incomplete product.

roryisok 10y ago
Absolutely agree. "seeing what sticks" is also called innovation. It's what Amazon and Microsoft are excelling at and what Apple has forgotten how to do
- blauditore 10y ago
  I think the problem at MS is indeed not the lack of innovation, but the lack of synchronizing the different efforts and listening to feedback (i.e. checking if it actually sticks). In years of using and developing for WP, I've been baffled several times by how unsynchronized some of their actions looked from the outside. One thing always enraging WP users was that Android and iOS counterparts of MS apps received new features earlier than their WP counterparts, if at all. While the other platforms are surely important, it looks like even MS doesn't really believe in its own mobile platform. I just never could get rid of the impression that one layer of management isn't doing it's job propery.
  - roryisok 10y ago
    Definitely. The best example: When WP8 first launched, it was only one of two totally different Microsoft phone platforms. The Microsoft Kin was simultaneously developed and launched by a wholly separate team. It cost $1 Billion to develop and lasted for 2 months before the plug was pulled. Mismanagement doesn't get any more blatant than wasting a billion dollars to build something your company is already building on another campus. Regarding the WP apps though, I do find the WP OneNote to be better than the Android version.
simonh 10y ago
If it's really for 5-10 years from now, they should release it in 5-10 years when it's fully baked. How can any product that needs at least another 5 years of work be anything other than a poorly implemented beta product that isnt fully thought out and doesn't work properly? Apart from the total disregard that shows for current customers, the big issue with that attitude is that it's fundamentally incompatible with the discipline and focus needed to actualy get the product right even 5-10 years down the line. Poorly thought out, badly implemented compromised systems do not transform into great products. None of the parts of those half baked tablet computers from Origami and such exist to this day. The whole lot had to be junked when Apple showed everyone how it ought to be done. The fact that they had a half baked solution to sell actively prevented better solutions being developed within Microsoft because they would compete with the existing system. It's a recipe for mediocrity now and failure in the future.
- justin66 10y ago
  > If it's really for 5-10 years from now, they should release it in 5-10 years when it's fully baked. > Poorly thought out, badly implemented compromised systems do not transform into great products. Microsoft has never needed their first version of a thing to be fully basked in order for the product to eventually be successful. Ever.
- dpark 10y ago
  > If it's really for 5-10 years from now, they should release it in 5-10 years when it's fully baked. You can't go dark and build a product for 5-10 years and then drop it on the market. While you're "baking" for years the market will change around you and you'll find that you built the wrong thing and someone else launched early and took the whole market with iterative improvements. > Poorly thought out, badly implemented compromised systems do not transform into great products. Sure they do. There's a reason people talk about minimum viable products and worse is better. You cannot build the perfect product in isolation. You build something good enough, get to the market, and keep making it better. Disclosure: MSFT employee
  - simonh 10y ago

roryisok 10y ago

Absolutely agree. "seeing what sticks" is also called innovation. It's what Amazon and Microsoft are excelling at and what Apple has forgotten how to do

blauditore 10y ago
I think the problem at MS is indeed not the lack of innovation, but the lack of synchronizing the different efforts and listening to feedback (i.e. checking if it actually sticks). In years of using and developing for WP, I've been baffled several times by how unsynchronized some of their actions looked from the outside. One thing always enraging WP users was that Android and iOS counterparts of MS apps received new features earlier than their WP counterparts, if at all. While the other platforms are surely important, it looks like even MS doesn't really believe in its own mobile platform. I just never could get rid of the impression that one layer of management isn't doing it's job propery.
- roryisok 10y ago
  Definitely. The best example: When WP8 first launched, it was only one of two totally different Microsoft phone platforms. The Microsoft Kin was simultaneously developed and launched by a wholly separate team. It cost $1 Billion to develop and lasted for 2 months before the plug was pulled. Mismanagement doesn't get any more blatant than wasting a billion dollars to build something your company is already building on another campus. Regarding the WP apps though, I do find the WP OneNote to be better than the Android version.

simonh 10y ago

If it's really for 5-10 years from now, they should release it in 5-10 years when it's fully baked. How can any product that needs at least another 5 years of work be anything other than a poorly implemented beta product that isnt fully thought out and doesn't work properly? Apart from the total disregard that shows for current customers, the big issue with that attitude is that it's fundamentally incompatible with the discipline and focus needed to actualy get the product right even 5-10 years down the line. Poorly thought out, badly implemented compromised systems do not transform into great products. None of the parts of those half baked tablet computers from Origami and such exist to this day. The whole lot had to be junked when Apple showed everyone how it ought to be done. The fact that they had a half baked solution to sell actively prevented better solutions being developed within Microsoft because they would compete with the existing system. It's a recipe for mediocrity now and failure in the future.

justin66 10y ago
> If it's really for 5-10 years from now, they should release it in 5-10 years when it's fully baked. > Poorly thought out, badly implemented compromised systems do not transform into great products. Microsoft has never needed their first version of a thing to be fully basked in order for the product to eventually be successful. Ever.
dpark 10y ago
> If it's really for 5-10 years from now, they should release it in 5-10 years when it's fully baked. You can't go dark and build a product for 5-10 years and then drop it on the market. While you're "baking" for years the market will change around you and you'll find that you built the wrong thing and someone else launched early and took the whole market with iterative improvements. > Poorly thought out, badly implemented compromised systems do not transform into great products. Sure they do. There's a reason people talk about minimum viable products and worse is better. You cannot build the perfect product in isolation. You build something good enough, get to the market, and keep making it better. Disclosure: MSFT employee
- simonh 10y ago