3 ms·

As another commenter said, for me it's about my personal lack of control over the outcome -- that you're completely at the whim of others (the pilots, the maint

by niftich 10y ago

As another commenter said, for me it's about my personal lack of control over the outcome -- that you're completely at the whim of others (the pilots, the maintenance crew, air traffic control, etc.), which compares unfavorably with the illusion of control one has with driving. Traffic fatalities do occur to people who were not 'at-fault', and despite there being lots of good statistics on driving accidents [1][2], I can't any good ones on the ratio of serious injury or death for non-"at-fault" drivers vs. at-fault ones. Meanwhile, it would be illuminating to interview people who never drive themselves -- rather, they are always passengers -- whether they feel safer being driven, vs. flying, and the like. [1] https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/#/ https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/#/ [2] http://www.iii.org/issue-update/auto-crashes http://www.iii.org/issue-update/auto-crashes

ceejayoz 10y ago
While I get that, it's a little odd to have that "illusion of control" in a situation where a legally blind 90 year old with mild dementia might well be barreling down the wrong way of the highway towards you.
- jdminhbg 10y ago
  Others downthread have mentioned it, but you still have an element of control in that situation. I've seen someone driving down the wrong side of the highway, and I pulled my car over and didn't get hit. Even if the % of control you personally have is small, as long as it's > 0%, you feel like you're in control of the situation. In a plane, it's 0%.
  - ceejayoz 10y ago
    Sometimes. There are situations where you're going to have no real options. A drunk driver could sideswipe you into a pole with zero warning. The chances of your plane running into another plane piloted by a drunk is pretty slim in comparison.
    - rconti 10y ago
      True. But in a car, it typically takes 2 people doing something wrong for a wreck to occur. I prefer to give myself a chance and be one of those with a choice, and to be able to train myself, and so on. On a plane, it's outside of my control. Furthermore, the failure is much more likely to be mechanical, and often at that point there's nothing anyone can do, even with the best-trained pilot in the world. So many people (maintenance personnel for instance) have to do their job well to keep the plane in the sky. I also have almost no fear of being in a car wreck because I still find it highly unlikely a wreck would kill or seriously injure me. I have a safe car and have lost (and regained!) control of cars plenty of times in my life without incident. Hell, I even choose to race cars in circle for fun! I only fly because I HAVE to. Motorcycles obviously feel more dangerous to me and I have greater reservations whenever I ride one. Ironically, I am posting this from a UA flight. I was once on a flight that lost an engine. That was fun. We took a "normal single-engined" tour of LA, and a "normal single-engined landing" 45 minutes later. The lack of concern was both reassuring and terrifying. I expected the pilots to spin the plane on a dime and drop it back down the runway the same way we came, emergency landing, rather than keep the thing flying on one engine.
  - Trundle 10y ago
    If you're just after any % so you can have a semblance of illusion of control, you could always spend some time researching safest seating positions in planes, how to position ones self to change direction in a free fall, and ideal landing terrain. Your ability to influence outcome in a plane accident are minuscule but they do technically exist.
    - MaxfordAndSons 10y ago
      Yes, as an anxious flier/safety obsessive I do this. I would say they are actually more significant than you would estimate. Even catastrophic crashes can be survivable, and most crashes are not the plane falling completely out of the sky but rather mishaps around takeoff or landing at slower speeds and involving fire-related fatalities on the ground. Here's a list of things you can do to increase your personal safety while flying: * Sit as close as possible to an emergency exit. * RTF(safety)M * Know how to assume a brace position, including ideally the particular brace position which is optimal for your body shape/size in your given seat. * If you're particularly paranoid like me, you can preemptively assume the brace position on takeoff and final approach/landing. Full disclosure: I don't have any evidence that this is beneficial and people may think you're crazy, so there's that, but it makes me feel better. * Wear sneakers and keep them on or at least in reach at all times. * Wear layers, preferably made from less flammable materials. * Don't be intoxicated. I break this rule by having some drinks to ease my anxiety, but the point is to not get to anywhere near the point of incapacitation.
jacalata 10y ago
Interesting - I never drive myself and I feel far more nervous about being in a car than my driver friends. I think there'd be confounding factors about who drives though. Perhaps you want to measure whether people who sometimes drive feel a significantly different level of safety when driving or being driven?

by niftich 10y ago

ceejayoz 10y ago

While I get that, it's a little odd to have that "illusion of control" in a situation where a legally blind 90 year old with mild dementia might well be barreling down the wrong way of the highway towards you.

jdminhbg 10y ago
Others downthread have mentioned it, but you still have an element of control in that situation. I've seen someone driving down the wrong side of the highway, and I pulled my car over and didn't get hit. Even if the % of control you personally have is small, as long as it's > 0%, you feel like you're in control of the situation. In a plane, it's 0%.
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  Sometimes. There are situations where you're going to have no real options. A drunk driver could sideswipe you into a pole with zero warning. The chances of your plane running into another plane piloted by a drunk is pretty slim in comparison.
  - rconti 10y ago
    True. But in a car, it typically takes 2 people doing something wrong for a wreck to occur. I prefer to give myself a chance and be one of those with a choice, and to be able to train myself, and so on. On a plane, it's outside of my control. Furthermore, the failure is much more likely to be mechanical, and often at that point there's nothing anyone can do, even with the best-trained pilot in the world. So many people (maintenance personnel for instance) have to do their job well to keep the plane in the sky. I also have almost no fear of being in a car wreck because I still find it highly unlikely a wreck would kill or seriously injure me. I have a safe car and have lost (and regained!) control of cars plenty of times in my life without incident. Hell, I even choose to race cars in circle for fun! I only fly because I HAVE to. Motorcycles obviously feel more dangerous to me and I have greater reservations whenever I ride one. Ironically, I am posting this from a UA flight. I was once on a flight that lost an engine. That was fun. We took a "normal single-engined" tour of LA, and a "normal single-engined landing" 45 minutes later. The lack of concern was both reassuring and terrifying. I expected the pilots to spin the plane on a dime and drop it back down the runway the same way we came, emergency landing, rather than keep the thing flying on one engine.
- Trundle 10y ago
  If you're just after any % so you can have a semblance of illusion of control, you could always spend some time researching safest seating positions in planes, how to position ones self to change direction in a free fall, and ideal landing terrain. Your ability to influence outcome in a plane accident are minuscule but they do technically exist.
  - MaxfordAndSons 10y ago
    Yes, as an anxious flier/safety obsessive I do this. I would say they are actually more significant than you would estimate. Even catastrophic crashes can be survivable, and most crashes are not the plane falling completely out of the sky but rather mishaps around takeoff or landing at slower speeds and involving fire-related fatalities on the ground. Here's a list of things you can do to increase your personal safety while flying: * Sit as close as possible to an emergency exit. * RTF(safety)M * Know how to assume a brace position, including ideally the particular brace position which is optimal for your body shape/size in your given seat. * If you're particularly paranoid like me, you can preemptively assume the brace position on takeoff and final approach/landing. Full disclosure: I don't have any evidence that this is beneficial and people may think you're crazy, so there's that, but it makes me feel better. * Wear sneakers and keep them on or at least in reach at all times. * Wear layers, preferably made from less flammable materials. * Don't be intoxicated. I break this rule by having some drinks to ease my anxiety, but the point is to not get to anywhere near the point of incapacitation.

jacalata 10y ago

Interesting - I never drive myself and I feel far more nervous about being in a car than my driver friends. I think there'd be confounding factors about who drives though. Perhaps you want to measure whether people who sometimes drive feel a significantly different level of safety when driving or being driven?