4 ms·

Colgan and Comair aren't counted in the metric because they're regional, not major/legacy, airlines. They codeshare with the majors, but they're different organ

Colgan and Comair aren't counted in the metric because they're regional, not major/legacy, airlines. They codeshare with the majors, but they're different organizations. Tangential: Frontline had a great episode on regional airlines' safety issues. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/

js2 10y ago
Tangent on the tagent: Phillip Greenspun touches on regional airline safety in this post comparing US to foreign airline safety - http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/foreign-airline-safety http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/foreign-airline-safety If having a newbie in the right seat represents a challenge to safety, how do U.S. regional airlines manage? The U.S. regional airline is hiring pilots who are more experienced than those hired by foreign airlines (the U.S. regional F/O typically has been a flight instructor) but less experienced than those hired by a U.S. major airline. The answer is that U.S. regional airlines have an accident rate as much as 5-10 times that of U.S. major airlines. The culture is the same, but apparently there is no substitute for experience.
mannykannot 10y ago
From the comments: "The total number of departures is split just about evenly between the majors and the regionals. Yet the regionals, at least over the past several years, are carrying a much higher share of the accidents." This, I think, is the issue here. Some of the commentators have suggested (plausibly, I think) that the number of legs per day flown by regional aircrews may be an issue. We should probably also consider experience.
- flashman 10y ago
  > the number of legs per day flown by regional aircrews may be an issue More take-offs and landings, more human and equipment fatigue, more opportunity for mistakes and breakages?
  - jcrawfordor 10y ago
    Most importantly the human fatigue. There have been some very alarming reports about regional airlines requiring their flight crew to work very long hours and scheduling them such that it's nearly impossible for them to get a proper night of sleep between working days. They're remaining compliant with the regulation, but in general getting as close as they can to violating. The major airlines, on the other hand, tend to have a more senior and thus more demanding flight crew (in terms of work life balance) so most flight crew have significantly more generous schedules.
jcdavis 10y ago
The regional/major distinction doesn't really exist from the perspective of most passengers, though. The article isn't wrong, but its certainly a little misleading
- secabeen 10y ago
  I don't know about that. I can usually tell when I'm on a regional. The equipment is different, and the planes smaller. There may be one or two regional airlines that fly major-grade equipment like B737s, but my experience has been that they fly different equipment.
dingaling 10y ago
> They codeshare with the majors, but they're different organizations. Indeed they are organisationally different, but to the passenger holding a United through-ticket from Smallville to LA there's no difference except one part of the journey is on a 'tiddly airyplane'. If they're good enough to carry a major's flight code and livery and do the grunt work for feeding hubs for them, they're good enough to count in accident statistics. Would we accept lower security standards for, say, AWS if that was outsourced and was only 'branded' by Amazon?
- el_benhameen 10y ago
  Oh, I don't disagree, and I get the jitters every time I get on one of those regional jets. I was just trying to clarify the parent's confusion.
- mikeash 10y ago
  If you include them, the picture is still remarkably safe. How many years since a regional airline fatality?
  - zardeh 10y ago
    7

js2 10y ago

Tangent on the tagent: Phillip Greenspun touches on regional airline safety in this post comparing US to foreign airline safety - http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/foreign-airline-safety http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/foreign-airline-safety If having a newbie in the right seat represents a challenge to safety, how do U.S. regional airlines manage? The U.S. regional airline is hiring pilots who are more experienced than those hired by foreign airlines (the U.S. regional F/O typically has been a flight instructor) but less experienced than those hired by a U.S. major airline. The answer is that U.S. regional airlines have an accident rate as much as 5-10 times that of U.S. major airlines. The culture is the same, but apparently there is no substitute for experience.

mannykannot 10y ago

From the comments: "The total number of departures is split just about evenly between the majors and the regionals. Yet the regionals, at least over the past several years, are carrying a much higher share of the accidents." This, I think, is the issue here. Some of the commentators have suggested (plausibly, I think) that the number of legs per day flown by regional aircrews may be an issue. We should probably also consider experience.

flashman 10y ago
> the number of legs per day flown by regional aircrews may be an issue More take-offs and landings, more human and equipment fatigue, more opportunity for mistakes and breakages?
- jcrawfordor 10y ago
  Most importantly the human fatigue. There have been some very alarming reports about regional airlines requiring their flight crew to work very long hours and scheduling them such that it's nearly impossible for them to get a proper night of sleep between working days. They're remaining compliant with the regulation, but in general getting as close as they can to violating. The major airlines, on the other hand, tend to have a more senior and thus more demanding flight crew (in terms of work life balance) so most flight crew have significantly more generous schedules.

jcdavis 10y ago

The regional/major distinction doesn't really exist from the perspective of most passengers, though. The article isn't wrong, but its certainly a little misleading

secabeen 10y ago
I don't know about that. I can usually tell when I'm on a regional. The equipment is different, and the planes smaller. There may be one or two regional airlines that fly major-grade equipment like B737s, but my experience has been that they fly different equipment.

dingaling 10y ago

> They codeshare with the majors, but they're different organizations. Indeed they are organisationally different, but to the passenger holding a United through-ticket from Smallville to LA there's no difference except one part of the journey is on a 'tiddly airyplane'. If they're good enough to carry a major's flight code and livery and do the grunt work for feeding hubs for them, they're good enough to count in accident statistics. Would we accept lower security standards for, say, AWS if that was outsourced and was only 'branded' by Amazon?

el_benhameen 10y ago
Oh, I don't disagree, and I get the jitters every time I get on one of those regional jets. I was just trying to clarify the parent's confusion.
mikeash 10y ago
If you include them, the picture is still remarkably safe. How many years since a regional airline fatality?
- zardeh 10y ago
  7