4 ms·

Sadly, almost everything you mention involve opening files, and files are often on networks. Standard modal file|open on windows allows http:// http:// access

by mwexler 10y ago

Sadly, almost everything you mention involve opening files, and files are often on networks. Standard modal file|open on windows allows http:// http:// access to files on hosted servers, for example. Suddenly, all of these are potentially networked in the hands of users using the code for unintended purposes or in unexpected ways.

Jtsummers 10y ago
But you don't write those dialogs yourself. You write code that calls the system file open dialog. Then, presumably, you do some check on the file for sanity checking (is it the right type? does it parse correctly? does the internal size # equal the value the OS is claiming?). If those checks fail, you report an error. Otherwise, you process it. The source doesn't matter at that point. And if there's a glitch in the dialog for handling HTTP or similar sources, then that's on the system developers to correct, and on you to report if you discover it.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  Exactly. All the concerns of networking, the Internet, and the Web go away. It becomes an input validation problem. From there, one can do a format suitable for correct-by-construction auto-generation of the parser. Or can take the common route building a Turing machine into it to fight with over time. ;) Still not writing or patching a networked app.
  - Jtsummers 10y ago
    OT: Have you ever read Engineering a Safer World [0] by Nancy Leveson [1]? Seems like something that'd be of interest to you. Started on it this week, my sister is in her class this semester at MIT. I'll be tackling it over the next few weeks, and then her previous text (Safeware) after the new year. [0] https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/engineering-safer-world https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/engineering-safer-world [1] http://sunnyday.mit.edu/ http://sunnyday.mit.edu/
    - nickpsecurity 10y ago
      Wow. Been studying high-assurance systems close to 10 years and just hearing about her. That's how scattered that field can be. Let's look at this. "Started new area of research: software safety." That was Bob Barton in Burroughs B5000, Dijkstra on THE, and Margaret Hamilton on Apollo code. Maybe they mean first dept at MIT or just making status of sub-field more official. Then TCAS II. I recall reading that long ago as an exemplary work in formal specification & safety analysis but project was too heavy for me. Article says them too haha. Props to her for it & others. Article shares my view on scattered groups & methods. At least seen STAMP referenced once but unfamiliar with it. They wrote against N-version programming being re-invented... which I proposed for subversion resistance. Hmmm. I'm sure my variant is the one that works this time. ;) Also did SpecTRM at their company that looks a lot like state machine and modeling schemes I saw elsewhere in high-assurance. Not claiming a copy rather than inspiration or independent invention + convergence of multiple parties. Usually means a good idea. Very interesting person. Thanks for the tip. Your sister is going to learn some wise things for sure given they've got sane methods and got results before. I especially liked how the article jokes about writing what she knew on high-assurance development then gotten wiser or more confused. I know the feeling where I'm redoing the foundations now with what a decade taught me. More slowly this time given I have more doubt than certainty. Note: Just got to the last part. Wait, she was the one who wrote the THERAC paper? I just assumed it was some guy (male-dominated field) named Levenson since that name was all I saw in references to the report. Never saw it again. So, she wrote up an investigation we've been citing about software safety for decades, helped spearhead efforts to legitimize it as a field, did huge projects, and I basically never hear about her. Unreal. I'm bookmarking her stuff to go through it later.

by mwexler 10y ago

Jtsummers 10y ago

But you don't write those dialogs yourself. You write code that calls the system file open dialog. Then, presumably, you do some check on the file for sanity checking (is it the right type? does it parse correctly? does the internal size # equal the value the OS is claiming?). If those checks fail, you report an error. Otherwise, you process it. The source doesn't matter at that point. And if there's a glitch in the dialog for handling HTTP or similar sources, then that's on the system developers to correct, and on you to report if you discover it.

nickpsecurity 10y ago
Exactly. All the concerns of networking, the Internet, and the Web go away. It becomes an input validation problem. From there, one can do a format suitable for correct-by-construction auto-generation of the parser. Or can take the common route building a Turing machine into it to fight with over time. ;) Still not writing or patching a networked app.
- Jtsummers 10y ago
  OT: Have you ever read Engineering a Safer World [0] by Nancy Leveson [1]? Seems like something that'd be of interest to you. Started on it this week, my sister is in her class this semester at MIT. I'll be tackling it over the next few weeks, and then her previous text (Safeware) after the new year. [0] https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/engineering-safer-world https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/engineering-safer-world [1] http://sunnyday.mit.edu/ http://sunnyday.mit.edu/
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    Wow. Been studying high-assurance systems close to 10 years and just hearing about her. That's how scattered that field can be. Let's look at this. "Started new area of research: software safety." That was Bob Barton in Burroughs B5000, Dijkstra on THE, and Margaret Hamilton on Apollo code. Maybe they mean first dept at MIT or just making status of sub-field more official. Then TCAS II. I recall reading that long ago as an exemplary work in formal specification & safety analysis but project was too heavy for me. Article says them too haha. Props to her for it & others. Article shares my view on scattered groups & methods. At least seen STAMP referenced once but unfamiliar with it. They wrote against N-version programming being re-invented... which I proposed for subversion resistance. Hmmm. I'm sure my variant is the one that works this time. ;) Also did SpecTRM at their company that looks a lot like state machine and modeling schemes I saw elsewhere in high-assurance. Not claiming a copy rather than inspiration or independent invention + convergence of multiple parties. Usually means a good idea. Very interesting person. Thanks for the tip. Your sister is going to learn some wise things for sure given they've got sane methods and got results before. I especially liked how the article jokes about writing what she knew on high-assurance development then gotten wiser or more confused. I know the feeling where I'm redoing the foundations now with what a decade taught me. More slowly this time given I have more doubt than certainty. Note: Just got to the last part. Wait, she was the one who wrote the THERAC paper? I just assumed it was some guy (male-dominated field) named Levenson since that name was all I saw in references to the report. Never saw it again. So, she wrote up an investigation we've been citing about software safety for decades, helped spearhead efforts to legitimize it as a field, did huge projects, and I basically never hear about her. Unreal. I'm bookmarking her stuff to go through it later.