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There is a rather strong quote by the German dramatist Bertolt Brecht that for me drives home the point of how economics and politics are inseparable. “The wor
by jasim 10y ago
There is a rather strong quote by the German dramatist Bertolt Brecht that for me drives home the point of how economics and politics are inseparable.
“The worst illiterate is the political illiterate, he doesn’t hear, doesn’t speak, nor participates in the political events. He doesn’t know the cost of life, the price of the bean, of the fish, of the flour, of the rent, of the shoes and of the medicine, all depends on political decisions. The political illiterate is so stupid that he is proud and swells his chest saying that he hates politics. The imbecile doesn’t know that, from his political ignorance is born the prostitute, the abandoned child, and the worst thieves of all, the bad politician, corrupted and flunky of the national and multinational companies.”
- enraged_camel 10y agoI fully agree with him. I've long maintained that a healthy democracy requires the populace to be politically informed and active, regardless of stance or belief. It is deeply disturbing that 100M+ Americans didn't vote in the most recent election. I bet a lot of those were people who, as Brecht points out, are proud of the fact that they hate politics and don't care about it. They always spout ignorant bullshit like "both parties are the same anyway" and they say that with a smug, holier-than-thou attitude, as if they've discovered some hidden insight. It really rustles my jimmies.
- cmdrfred 10y agoWhen it comes to issues I care about most (mass incarceration, surveillance, war, poverty, torture and corruption) both parties are effectively identical.
- vkou 10y agoThe place to change that is the primaries.
- nitrogen 10y agoThis thread could rapidly veer out of control, so rather than add my counterargument here, can I (as an ordinary user not affiliated with HN) suggest that we stop here, or at least hold ourselves to a minimum length and point/counterpoint format?
- rspeer 10y agoParticularly for local and state elections (where all of those issues besides war and torture will primarily be decided).
- chetanahuja 10y agoOn a purely scientific level, US is about to run an experiment where they're handing power completely over to one side of the aisle for at least 2 full years after having a split government for the last 6. You're likely to get sufficient data during this period to make your determination whether your (IMHO ill-informed) opinion is indeed true.
- cmdrfred 10y agoI'm keeping an open mind, if it ends up as more of the same again I hope you will as well.
- chetanahuja 10y agoCurrently I'm mostly keeping an open mouth watching the events that are unfolding in this timeline.
- eli_gottlieb 10y agoI think the transition Cabinet already shows that there is some difference. Clinton would not have dreamed of trying to abolish Social Security.
- hackinthebochs 10y agoOnly those holding an insufficient amount of nuance on these issues can honestly believe that.
- nickpsecurity 10y agoNot true. Both final candidates supported and benefited from the causes of most of that list. They also mocked various Constitutional amendments. Tyrants that are just the same for that list and what supposedly empowers them.
- xor1 10y agoHow do you feel about the people who voted contrary to your political choices? Do you view them with more or less disdain than you appear to have for those who sat this one out?
- rodgerd 10y agoI can't speak for the parent, but in general I have a great deal more respect for people who vote for things I disagree with than people who share my values but can't be fucked doing anything to effect them.
- xor1 10y agoThat's interesting, do you still feel that way when they're voting in favor of things that have the potential to significantly degrade your quality of life?
- munchbunny 10y agoI'm not the person you responded to, but here's my take. I can respect someone I personally dislike. I can also respect someone who disagrees with me. I can even respect someone who makes my life harder, though I might dislike them for it. But I lose respect for a person for many other things. Once you tally up all of the factors, I do have trouble respecting most of the Trump voters I've personally encountered so far (not many) because I sensed too much intellectual laziness or cognitive dissonance. Once you tally up all of the factors, I'm not sure that Trump voters come out ahead of non-voters in aggregate.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- dilemma 10y agoSo the end game for dang's experiment was "the prostitute, the abandoned child, and the worst thieves of all, the bad politician, corrupted and flunky of the national and multinational companies.”
- jasim 10y agoI daresay not. The problem was that unless we're talking hardcore science/engineering, there is always a political shade to things that affect the real world. But as a non-american, I wouldn't have minded if the experiment continued since a lot of the political discourse here is extremely US-centric and repetitive.