5 ms·

It's an general aptitude test. If someone cheats they move forward when perhaps they shouldn't and they waste Amazon's time. ProctorU does similar things for u

by nkozyra 10y ago

It's an general aptitude test. If someone cheats they move forward when perhaps they shouldn't and they waste Amazon's time. ProctorU does similar things for universities. I've taken a few, they're not always this intrusive, but I understand the sentiment. People cheat. It's hard to stop that and even harder to do remotely.

geofft 10y ago
So it filters for only the good cheaters, then. To be fair, those people are very likely to be successful!
mikeash 10y ago
Seems like the proper way to handle this would be to have the test taker go somewhere with a proper test taking environment. If you don't want them to come on sit, then I'm sure there are local facilities they could contract to handle it. Attempting to take over a person's own computer in order to prevent cheating on a test is simultaneously an egregious invasion of privacy and completely insecure. Are we really supposed to believe that you wouldn't be able to hide some cheating materials from your own webcam?
- nkozyra 10y ago
  > Seems like the proper way to handle this would be to have the test taker go somewhere with a proper test taking environment. If you don't want them to come on sit, then I'm sure there are local facilities they could contract to handle it. I'm certain it's more expensive for the company, though. And some candidates don't have nearby access to this.
  - rewrew 10y ago
    There a so many locations that almost all do -- certainly much easier than any local interview location.
    - nkozyra 10y ago
      But easier and cheaper than ProctorU? That's the main sell.
      - mikeash 10y ago
        Doing things badly is usually easier and cheaper than doing them properly.
- dom0 10y ago
  Mensa International tests work similar to this, ie. they rent a room in a VHS or university for a couple hours to conduct the tests.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    The FAA's written exam for pilots is similar, they have certified testing centers which can administer it. That's what made me think of this approach. Looking around a bit, it looks like dedicated testing centers are fairly common.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  I recently had this a version of this with test taking - As part of immigration, I had to complete civics and language learning courses. Both had tests to take to complete the training. The tests were held at the schools, all online. Purses, bags, jackets, electronics and so forth were left at the front of the room. Paper and pencils were provided in the computer labs, which were recorded and inspected for signs of cheating. Humans were at the site, but video wouldn't have been out of the question either. It wouldn't seem too much to be able to rent a local school's computer lab for these sorts of purposes, for a small fee. And the internet and security on these is already tax-payer funded. This should put test taking environments well within reach of most people.
- rewrew 10y ago
  Exactly. There are proctored testing labs worldwide -- there is absolutely no reason for Amazon not to handle it this way if they really feel the proctoring is necessary. Someone at Amazon just didn't do their job properly.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
konart 10y ago
What is cheating in this situation? When we are talking about university exams - yes, you can cheat by using materials you are not allowed to. As a software developer - I alwasy kind of cheat. I use Stackoverflow and infinite google search abilities :)
- FungalRaincloud 10y ago
  I consider cheating to be part of my job. I look up things I've done a dozen times before, if I haven't done them in a few weeks. I'll often ask google how to do something, then while it's loading the results, start writing the code that does that thing. A more valuable test, in my eyes, is how well someone CAN cheat in the interview. I want to hear someone say "you know, I've never actually heard that question before, let me see if anyone's talking about it on StackOverflow." Admitting you don't know the answer, and coming up with a way to get the answer is far more important a skill, to me, than blind recall. I've said "I don't know" in an interview, and while getting the words out took some effort, it showed the interviewer that I could admit to not knowing, and started a dialog between me and the interviewer, which gave him an idea of how I think about new problems.
- nkozyra 10y ago
  You can consider this tantamount to a blackboard exercise. In all likelihood they're looking for basic algorithm stuff. In that instance, in your daily job you wouldn't even cheat by looking it up, you'd just use a library. I would assume that they value people who understand how these things work rather than just being able to implement it. After all, you can teach someone basic Python and how to use Scipy in a couple of hours, but does that make them a data scientist? Anyway my point is lots of companies have programming exercises/tests, and I'm not aware of too many that let you just look stuff up while you're doing them. Debate the merits of that, but it's common enough that seeing it in this platform shouldn't feel totally shocking.

by nkozyra 10y ago

geofft 10y ago

So it filters for only the good cheaters, then. To be fair, those people are very likely to be successful!

mikeash 10y ago

Seems like the proper way to handle this would be to have the test taker go somewhere with a proper test taking environment. If you don't want them to come on sit, then I'm sure there are local facilities they could contract to handle it. Attempting to take over a person's own computer in order to prevent cheating on a test is simultaneously an egregious invasion of privacy and completely insecure. Are we really supposed to believe that you wouldn't be able to hide some cheating materials from your own webcam?

nkozyra 10y ago
> Seems like the proper way to handle this would be to have the test taker go somewhere with a proper test taking environment. If you don't want them to come on sit, then I'm sure there are local facilities they could contract to handle it. I'm certain it's more expensive for the company, though. And some candidates don't have nearby access to this.
- rewrew 10y ago
  There a so many locations that almost all do -- certainly much easier than any local interview location.
  - nkozyra 10y ago
    But easier and cheaper than ProctorU? That's the main sell.
    - mikeash 10y ago
      Doing things badly is usually easier and cheaper than doing them properly.
dom0 10y ago
Mensa International tests work similar to this, ie. they rent a room in a VHS or university for a couple hours to conduct the tests.
- mikeash 10y ago
  The FAA's written exam for pilots is similar, they have certified testing centers which can administer it. That's what made me think of this approach. Looking around a bit, it looks like dedicated testing centers are fairly common.
Broken_Hippo 10y ago
I recently had this a version of this with test taking - As part of immigration, I had to complete civics and language learning courses. Both had tests to take to complete the training. The tests were held at the schools, all online. Purses, bags, jackets, electronics and so forth were left at the front of the room. Paper and pencils were provided in the computer labs, which were recorded and inspected for signs of cheating. Humans were at the site, but video wouldn't have been out of the question either. It wouldn't seem too much to be able to rent a local school's computer lab for these sorts of purposes, for a small fee. And the internet and security on these is already tax-payer funded. This should put test taking environments well within reach of most people.
rewrew 10y ago
Exactly. There are proctored testing labs worldwide -- there is absolutely no reason for Amazon not to handle it this way if they really feel the proctoring is necessary. Someone at Amazon just didn't do their job properly.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

konart 10y ago

What is cheating in this situation? When we are talking about university exams - yes, you can cheat by using materials you are not allowed to. As a software developer - I alwasy kind of cheat. I use Stackoverflow and infinite google search abilities :)

FungalRaincloud 10y ago
I consider cheating to be part of my job. I look up things I've done a dozen times before, if I haven't done them in a few weeks. I'll often ask google how to do something, then while it's loading the results, start writing the code that does that thing. A more valuable test, in my eyes, is how well someone CAN cheat in the interview. I want to hear someone say "you know, I've never actually heard that question before, let me see if anyone's talking about it on StackOverflow." Admitting you don't know the answer, and coming up with a way to get the answer is far more important a skill, to me, than blind recall. I've said "I don't know" in an interview, and while getting the words out took some effort, it showed the interviewer that I could admit to not knowing, and started a dialog between me and the interviewer, which gave him an idea of how I think about new problems.
nkozyra 10y ago
You can consider this tantamount to a blackboard exercise. In all likelihood they're looking for basic algorithm stuff. In that instance, in your daily job you wouldn't even cheat by looking it up, you'd just use a library. I would assume that they value people who understand how these things work rather than just being able to implement it. After all, you can teach someone basic Python and how to use Scipy in a couple of hours, but does that make them a data scientist? Anyway my point is lots of companies have programming exercises/tests, and I'm not aware of too many that let you just look stuff up while you're doing them. Debate the merits of that, but it's common enough that seeing it in this platform shouldn't feel totally shocking.