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So would you call a birthday cake a bread then?

by hueving 10y ago

tptacek 10y ago
Most cakes are quickbreads. We don't eat them the way we eat other breads (as a utilitarian cuisine staple), just like we no longer really eat biscuits as a staple bread --- but for a long time, biscuits were the staple bread for lots of people. As you can see, my definition of bread is functional --- it's about how the bread is constructed and how it behaves as a final product. But there are other valid definitions of bread that capture things like the setting in which they're consumed --- maybe the default for things consumed in a pastry setting shouldn't be "bread", even when the product is a culinary foam made of a dough (but then you run into trouble with sweetened breads eaten as desserts!). I'm fine with those definitions too, but would note that they rule out none of these indian breads. I'm pushing the functional definition because the parent commenter tried to rule out dosas based on a functional definition, and that functional definition was incorrect. (There are obviously exceptions for "cakes" that are really set custards and things like that. But birthday cake isn't such an exception.)
jpatokal 10y ago
It's common in the West to equate "bread" with things that are savoury, but a visit to your local Asian bakery will quickly demolish that notion. So, yes, a birthday cake is a special type of highly decorated, sweet "bread". Or you can take a leaf from the Swedish/Finnish book and have a savoury cake: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%C3%B6rg%C3%A5st%C3%A5rta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%C3%B6rg%C3%A5st%C3%A5rta
- vesinisa 10y ago
  That, and birthday cake, are as bread as pizza is bread (and yes, pizza is bread.) If you find it hard to believe, it helps to know there are many varieties of pizza in Italy that do not include tomato sauce (pizza bianca). For example, quatro formaggi is often without sauce. But the plainer pizze bianche are actually similar to focaccia, which is a cousin of the world famous pizza, and indisputably bread. So at what point along the focaccia - pizza continuum does the dish become un-bread? At the addition of tomato sauce? Then how come is quatro formaggi so often served in pizzerias? At the addition of cheese? Marinara, one of the most classical of all pizzas, is defined by its lack of milk-based ingredients (which do not preserve at sea, hence the name.) Clearly, pizza, too, is bread.
  - thaumasiotes 10y ago
    Well, pizza crust is bread. Pizza is only bread in the same sense that a sandwich "is" bread.
flukus 10y ago
I've always wondered where scones fit in. They taste like bread but typically come with cream and jam like cake.

So would you call a birthday cake a bread then?

by hueving 10y ago

So would you call a birthday cake a bread then?

Most cakes are quickbreads. We don't eat them the way we eat other breads (as a utilitarian cuisine staple), just like we no longer really eat biscuits as a staple bread --- but for a long time, biscuits were the staple bread for lots of people. As you can see, my definition of bread is functional --- it's about how the bread is constructed and how it behaves as a final product. But there are other valid definitions of bread that capture things like the setting in which they're consumed --- maybe the default for things consumed in a pastry setting shouldn't be "bread", even when the product is a culinary foam made of a dough (but then you run into trouble with sweetened breads eaten as desserts!). I'm fine with those definitions too, but would note that they rule out none of these indian breads. I'm pushing the functional definition because the parent commenter tried to rule out dosas based on a functional definition, and that functional definition was incorrect. (There are obviously exceptions for "cakes" that are really set custards and things like that. But birthday cake isn't such an exception.)

jpatokal 10y ago

It's common in the West to equate "bread" with things that are savoury, but a visit to your local Asian bakery will quickly demolish that notion. So, yes, a birthday cake is a special type of highly decorated, sweet "bread". Or you can take a leaf from the Swedish/Finnish book and have a savoury cake: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%C3%B6rg%C3%A5st%C3%A5rta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%C3%B6rg%C3%A5st%C3%A5rta

vesinisa 10y ago
That, and birthday cake, are as bread as pizza is bread (and yes, pizza is bread.) If you find it hard to believe, it helps to know there are many varieties of pizza in Italy that do not include tomato sauce (pizza bianca). For example, quatro formaggi is often without sauce. But the plainer pizze bianche are actually similar to focaccia, which is a cousin of the world famous pizza, and indisputably bread. So at what point along the focaccia - pizza continuum does the dish become un-bread? At the addition of tomato sauce? Then how come is quatro formaggi so often served in pizzerias? At the addition of cheese? Marinara, one of the most classical of all pizzas, is defined by its lack of milk-based ingredients (which do not preserve at sea, hence the name.) Clearly, pizza, too, is bread.
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  Well, pizza crust is bread. Pizza is only bread in the same sense that a sandwich "is" bread.

flukus 10y ago

I've always wondered where scones fit in. They taste like bread but typically come with cream and jam like cake.