4 ms·

Foxconn Confirms Plans for U.S. Investment

33 points by JamilD 10y ago

chollida1 10y ago
Smart move by both Apple and Foxconn. Having your manufacturing based in one country isn't a good idea in terms of risk management. Natural disasters, shipping delays, or presidential will could shut down production pretty quickly. Trump will be very quick to use this as a point to show he was correct. I'd expect Foxconn to get some very good concessions out of this. SoftBank's Masayoshi continues to amaze me. Instead of talking tough about Trump's local manufacturing bluster, he quickly accepted it and started deal making with this new reality. I'm no political expert but Id' be very surprised if Trump doesn't start picking fights with other governments about manufacturing jobs and tariffs. Companies and supply chains who don't anticipate this are going to be in for a rough 4 years. Bloomberg's SPLC<GO> function is going to get alot more use in the coming days/weeks as people start to map out who is bring jobs back to America and who is standing firm:)
- jbooth 10y ago
  I seriously doubt that a large Japanese multinational made a $50B decision in the last 4 weeks. Masayoshi smartly saw that with some spin, he can hold a press conference with Trump and get some goodies for something they were going to do anyways. Smart guy. Your tax dollars at work.
  - chollida1 10y ago
    I think we are in 100% agreement. > Your tax dollars at work. I'm not an American:)
- zzleeper 10y ago
  I still feel like I'm missing something. It's not just the fact that it's going to be more labor expensive (after all, the yuan has fell a lot recently), but that the entire supply chain is in China, so if you produce in the US you'll be forced to hold lots of inventories. Or is this some BS from Foxconn just to keep Trump happy? Sure, agree to invest, make plans, delay it as much as possible, etc.
  - zzleeper 10y ago
    Edit: or is it a move by Softbank to get the Sprint-TMobile merger approved? "Son is no stranger to grand goals, even if he hasn’t always delivered. He planned to combine Sprint, the No. 4 U.S. wireless operator, with its next rival T-Mobile US Inc. only to be thwarted by regulators. "
    - dforrestwilson1 10y ago
      I have trouble believing that a Sprint-TMUS merger wasn't discussed if they were in the same room. Investors are betting that TMUS is going to get some offers within the next year. TMUS is up 16% since the election vs the S&P500 at 5%. https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3ATMUS&ei=eoRIWNnNIsmAjAGR64m4Cg https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3ATMUS&ei=eoRIWNnNIs... The telecom sector in general is soaring on M&A speculation.
- norea-armozel 10y ago
  The problem is that these aren't high paying jobs likely like those in actual semiconductor fabrication. Plus, Foxconn already utilizes robots in the majority of it's facilities so you're not going to get much out of this as they continue the process of automation throughout their production processes. Expect some jobs, but most of them will be always replaceable with machines. All that's happened here is Trump got played by Foxconn.
  - protomyth 10y ago
    Do you happen to know what jobs and/or training happens to support the robots?
    - norea-armozel 10y ago
      Those jobs are at least one magnitude less in number than the typical assembler/packer job. They also require much more skills so I expect them to pay but that's not enough to offset the losses. Either way, these aren't good paying jobs like being a sander, painter, chem-treat, or CNC operator at an aircraft plant.
      - protomyth 10y ago
        True, but I'm still wondering what an actual "robot technician" job training looks like.
  - 234dd57d2c8db 10y ago
    The details of the plan are not released, how can Trump get "played" by Foxconn. You don't even know the deal. And even if they don't create any jobs, they still are investing and contributing tax dollars to the country. Could you explain why that is a bad thing?
    - norea-armozel 10y ago
      He was played for two reasons. 1. It's likely Foxconn had already decided this well in advance of the 2016 election cycle. So him winning the election and this projected deal aren't related. 2. Even if him winning the election may have affected the decision it's still not him doing this, it's Foxconn. And the fact he's promoting this deal makes him the stooge for Foxconn. All he did was give them free PR (I hope his advisors told him that). So for a man who claims to have good business sense he basically did something for free. 3. The tax dollars don't matter, it's the fact Trump is like the soupstone guy from the fable. He didn't contribute anything. He produced exactly no value here.
- protomyth 10y ago
  > Natural disasters One recent example was flooding in Thailand that really hit the hard drive market hard.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
ibejoeb 10y ago
dang: where did we arrive on the politics matter yesterday? Is this in or out? Serious question.
- idlewords 10y ago
  I believe the instructions were "when in doubt, flag," and this is clearly a political story.
- dang 10y ago
  It's clearly on topic for HN in general, but has to be out this week, given that we asked people to err on the side of flagging politics and the reason the investment was made was political. Doing this experiment for a week is demonstrating how inseparable the political aspects of these stories are, and how "just ban politics" is not an answer to the flamewar and incivility problems that HN faces. So when it's done, our current thinking is to revert to the status quo ante, with some additional guidelines to encourage civility and to ask people not to use the site primarily for politics.
  - adiabatty 10y ago
    A pity. I was hoping the ban could last a month or longer. The site is _wonderful_ now.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      I'm liking it too!
Animats 10y ago
Why not? Foxconn is going robotic. Their new Foxbots are good enough to assemble iPhones. So why not make them nearer to the US market and avoid tariff problems? 50,000 employees is small for Foxconn. They have 1,300,000 employees now. (Yes, they really are that big.) They replaced 60,000 workers with robots earlier in 2016.[1] They plan to replace a lot more. [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36376966 http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36376966
damaru 10y ago
I'm not clear about China/Japanese investment in the USA but doesn't that feel like the US is loosing it's edge and competitiveness. From an uninformed point of view it surely feels like China and Japan are actually in a position of control here more than ever?
adrienne 10y ago
Isn't HN supposed to be "detoxing" from politics this week?

33 points by JamilD 10y ago

Smart move by both Apple and Foxconn. Having your manufacturing based in one country isn't a good idea in terms of risk management. Natural disasters, shipping delays, or presidential will could shut down production pretty quickly. Trump will be very quick to use this as a point to show he was correct. I'd expect Foxconn to get some very good concessions out of this. SoftBank's Masayoshi continues to amaze me. Instead of talking tough about Trump's local manufacturing bluster, he quickly accepted it and started deal making with this new reality. I'm no political expert but Id' be very surprised if Trump doesn't start picking fights with other governments about manufacturing jobs and tariffs. Companies and supply chains who don't anticipate this are going to be in for a rough 4 years. Bloomberg's SPLC<GO> function is going to get alot more use in the coming days/weeks as people start to map out who is bring jobs back to America and who is standing firm:)

jbooth 10y ago
I seriously doubt that a large Japanese multinational made a $50B decision in the last 4 weeks. Masayoshi smartly saw that with some spin, he can hold a press conference with Trump and get some goodies for something they were going to do anyways. Smart guy. Your tax dollars at work.
- chollida1 10y ago
  I think we are in 100% agreement. > Your tax dollars at work. I'm not an American:)
zzleeper 10y ago
I still feel like I'm missing something. It's not just the fact that it's going to be more labor expensive (after all, the yuan has fell a lot recently), but that the entire supply chain is in China, so if you produce in the US you'll be forced to hold lots of inventories. Or is this some BS from Foxconn just to keep Trump happy? Sure, agree to invest, make plans, delay it as much as possible, etc.
- zzleeper 10y ago
  Edit: or is it a move by Softbank to get the Sprint-TMobile merger approved? "Son is no stranger to grand goals, even if he hasn’t always delivered. He planned to combine Sprint, the No. 4 U.S. wireless operator, with its next rival T-Mobile US Inc. only to be thwarted by regulators. "
  - dforrestwilson1 10y ago
    I have trouble believing that a Sprint-TMUS merger wasn't discussed if they were in the same room. Investors are betting that TMUS is going to get some offers within the next year. TMUS is up 16% since the election vs the S&P500 at 5%. https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3ATMUS&ei=eoRIWNnNIsmAjAGR64m4Cg https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3ATMUS&ei=eoRIWNnNIs... The telecom sector in general is soaring on M&A speculation.
norea-armozel 10y ago
The problem is that these aren't high paying jobs likely like those in actual semiconductor fabrication. Plus, Foxconn already utilizes robots in the majority of it's facilities so you're not going to get much out of this as they continue the process of automation throughout their production processes. Expect some jobs, but most of them will be always replaceable with machines. All that's happened here is Trump got played by Foxconn.
- protomyth 10y ago
  Do you happen to know what jobs and/or training happens to support the robots?
  - norea-armozel 10y ago
    Those jobs are at least one magnitude less in number than the typical assembler/packer job. They also require much more skills so I expect them to pay but that's not enough to offset the losses. Either way, these aren't good paying jobs like being a sander, painter, chem-treat, or CNC operator at an aircraft plant.
    - protomyth 10y ago
      True, but I'm still wondering what an actual "robot technician" job training looks like.
- 234dd57d2c8db 10y ago
  The details of the plan are not released, how can Trump get "played" by Foxconn. You don't even know the deal. And even if they don't create any jobs, they still are investing and contributing tax dollars to the country. Could you explain why that is a bad thing?
  - norea-armozel 10y ago
    He was played for two reasons. 1. It's likely Foxconn had already decided this well in advance of the 2016 election cycle. So him winning the election and this projected deal aren't related. 2. Even if him winning the election may have affected the decision it's still not him doing this, it's Foxconn. And the fact he's promoting this deal makes him the stooge for Foxconn. All he did was give them free PR (I hope his advisors told him that). So for a man who claims to have good business sense he basically did something for free. 3. The tax dollars don't matter, it's the fact Trump is like the soupstone guy from the fable. He didn't contribute anything. He produced exactly no value here.
protomyth 10y ago
> Natural disasters One recent example was flooding in Thailand that really hit the hard drive market hard.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

ibejoeb 10y ago

dang: where did we arrive on the politics matter yesterday? Is this in or out? Serious question.

idlewords 10y ago
I believe the instructions were "when in doubt, flag," and this is clearly a political story.
dang 10y ago
It's clearly on topic for HN in general, but has to be out this week, given that we asked people to err on the side of flagging politics and the reason the investment was made was political. Doing this experiment for a week is demonstrating how inseparable the political aspects of these stories are, and how "just ban politics" is not an answer to the flamewar and incivility problems that HN faces. So when it's done, our current thinking is to revert to the status quo ante, with some additional guidelines to encourage civility and to ask people not to use the site primarily for politics.
- adiabatty 10y ago
  A pity. I was hoping the ban could last a month or longer. The site is _wonderful_ now.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    I'm liking it too!

Animats 10y ago

Why not? Foxconn is going robotic. Their new Foxbots are good enough to assemble iPhones. So why not make them nearer to the US market and avoid tariff problems? 50,000 employees is small for Foxconn. They have 1,300,000 employees now. (Yes, they really are that big.) They replaced 60,000 workers with robots earlier in 2016.[1] They plan to replace a lot more. [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36376966 http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36376966

damaru 10y ago

I'm not clear about China/Japanese investment in the USA but doesn't that feel like the US is loosing it's edge and competitiveness. From an uninformed point of view it surely feels like China and Japan are actually in a position of control here more than ever?

adrienne 10y ago

Isn't HN supposed to be "detoxing" from politics this week?