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I'd say 'temporarily killed'. After the rise of quantum computing and AI in the public consciousness, I'd expect we'd see a return of the hacker-as-magician arc

I'd say 'temporarily killed'. After the rise of quantum computing and AI in the public consciousness, I'd expect we'd see a return of the hacker-as-magician archetype.

jerf 10y ago
The attempts to explain quantum computing are often as crap as any other attempt to explain anything "quantum", but in practice, it doesn't really change what computing looks like for most people. It means a certain class of problems can be solved more efficiently, and some problems may be solved that previously could not be, but it's not that significant to one not versed in the field. By contrast, if we ever did get true human-level AI... uh... are quite sure that "magician" wouldn't be appropriate at that point...? It's not entirely dissimilar to "demon summoner", though there probably won't be actual pentagrams involved. Although you never know; just as my UNIX system has an awful lot of "demons" in it it would only take one AI researcher with a hacker sense of humor to program in an last-ditch emergency "containment via drawing a pentagram" routine in the base OS for the successful AIs....
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  > "The attempts to explain quantum computing are often as crap as any other attempt to explain anything "quantum", but in practice, it doesn't really change what computing looks like for most people. It means a certain class of problems can be solved more efficiently, and some problems may be solved that previously could not be, but it's not that significant to one not versed in the field." Quantum computing is likely to have a large impact on crypto (making the crypto we rely on now easier to break). A large part of the Hollywood hacker is someone who breaks into systems with relative ease. >"By contrast, if we ever did get true human-level AI... uh... are quite sure that "magician" wouldn't be appropriate at that point...? It's not entirely dissimilar to "demon summoner", though there probably won't be actual pentagrams involved. Although you never know; just as my UNIX system has an awful lot of "demons" in it it would only take one AI researcher with a hacker sense of humor to program in an last-ditch emergency "containment via drawing a pentagram" routine in the base OS for the successful AIs...." Again, the angle I was going for was more about the power of hackers. The type of opinions people had when they denied Mitnick his phone call from jail because they thought he could launch nuclear missiles. We're only starting to see the widespread impacts of AI. Wait until the impacts on day to day life are undeniable. At that point, people who can control AI will be seen as a little beyond the ordinary.
- stcredzero 10y ago
  By contrast, if we ever did get true human-level AI... uh... are quite sure that "magician" wouldn't be appropriate at that point...? It's not entirely dissimilar to "demon summoner" I think a lot of "rationalist" guff about super-optimizing AIs is just recycled crap we used to use religion to deal with. It's one thing to pose a thought exercise about an entity who can reliably predict what you are going to do and think 99% of the time. I can see how that's a useful exercise. The thing is, I think I'm seeing a lot of people go from that to essentially believing in such imagined entities as prophesied gods-to-be. (Or perhaps devils.) Our current notion of such entities is probably as spot-on as Ada Lovelace's notion of personal computing. Our current notion of such entities is probably much more inaccurate than 1950's notions of what computing would be like in the 2nd decade of the 21st century.
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago
    >"I think a lot of "rationalist" guff about super-optimizing AIs is just recycled crap we used to use religion to deal with. It's one thing to pose a thought exercise about an entity who can reliably predict what you are going to do and think 99% of the time." What makes you think those who are interested in AI expect we will be able to predict the future with 99% accuracy? The closest example I can think of from sci-fi is Minority Report, but that isn't exactly a pure AI solution, nor particularly realistic. The coming impact of AI will be on jobs. You don't need godlike AI in order to do human work in all its forms. That's the type of change I think will re-ignite imaginations about AI.
    - stcredzero 10y ago
      What makes you think those who are interested in AI expect we will be able to predict the future with 99% accuracy? I encounter people online and in person who pose logic puzzles involving such a hypothetical entity. I also encounter people online and in person who engage in futurist thinking about where humans would fit into a world with such entities. The coming impact of AI will be on jobs. You don't need godlike AI in order to do human work in all its forms. That's the type of change I think will re-ignite imaginations about AI. In "The Matrix" and sequel movies, human beings seem to react to machines in a way analogous to how we have historically reacted to different ethnic/religious groups. I hope "ignition" isn't apt.
pessimizer 10y ago
AI has been in the public consciousness since well before computers, and quantum computers are vaporware that don't even really promise much that would be meaningful to a non-mathematician.
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  >"AI has been in the public consciousness since well before computers" Not to the point where it has a sizeable impact on day-to-day life. >"quantum computers are vaporware" Are you just basing your opinion on D-Wave alone? Plus, they're likely to have a decent impact on crypto, which definitely has meaning beyond mathematicians.

I'd say 'temporarily killed'. After the rise of quantum computing and AI in the public consciousness, I'd expect we'd see a return of the hacker-as-magician archetype.

jerf 10y ago

The attempts to explain quantum computing are often as crap as any other attempt to explain anything "quantum", but in practice, it doesn't really change what computing looks like for most people. It means a certain class of problems can be solved more efficiently, and some problems may be solved that previously could not be, but it's not that significant to one not versed in the field. By contrast, if we ever did get true human-level AI... uh... are quite sure that "magician" wouldn't be appropriate at that point...? It's not entirely dissimilar to "demon summoner", though there probably won't be actual pentagrams involved. Although you never know; just as my UNIX system has an awful lot of "demons" in it it would only take one AI researcher with a hacker sense of humor to program in an last-ditch emergency "containment via drawing a pentagram" routine in the base OS for the successful AIs....

ZenoArrow 10y ago
> "The attempts to explain quantum computing are often as crap as any other attempt to explain anything "quantum", but in practice, it doesn't really change what computing looks like for most people. It means a certain class of problems can be solved more efficiently, and some problems may be solved that previously could not be, but it's not that significant to one not versed in the field." Quantum computing is likely to have a large impact on crypto (making the crypto we rely on now easier to break). A large part of the Hollywood hacker is someone who breaks into systems with relative ease. >"By contrast, if we ever did get true human-level AI... uh... are quite sure that "magician" wouldn't be appropriate at that point...? It's not entirely dissimilar to "demon summoner", though there probably won't be actual pentagrams involved. Although you never know; just as my UNIX system has an awful lot of "demons" in it it would only take one AI researcher with a hacker sense of humor to program in an last-ditch emergency "containment via drawing a pentagram" routine in the base OS for the successful AIs...." Again, the angle I was going for was more about the power of hackers. The type of opinions people had when they denied Mitnick his phone call from jail because they thought he could launch nuclear missiles. We're only starting to see the widespread impacts of AI. Wait until the impacts on day to day life are undeniable. At that point, people who can control AI will be seen as a little beyond the ordinary.
stcredzero 10y ago
By contrast, if we ever did get true human-level AI... uh... are quite sure that "magician" wouldn't be appropriate at that point...? It's not entirely dissimilar to "demon summoner" I think a lot of "rationalist" guff about super-optimizing AIs is just recycled crap we used to use religion to deal with. It's one thing to pose a thought exercise about an entity who can reliably predict what you are going to do and think 99% of the time. I can see how that's a useful exercise. The thing is, I think I'm seeing a lot of people go from that to essentially believing in such imagined entities as prophesied gods-to-be. (Or perhaps devils.) Our current notion of such entities is probably as spot-on as Ada Lovelace's notion of personal computing. Our current notion of such entities is probably much more inaccurate than 1950's notions of what computing would be like in the 2nd decade of the 21st century.
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  >"I think a lot of "rationalist" guff about super-optimizing AIs is just recycled crap we used to use religion to deal with. It's one thing to pose a thought exercise about an entity who can reliably predict what you are going to do and think 99% of the time." What makes you think those who are interested in AI expect we will be able to predict the future with 99% accuracy? The closest example I can think of from sci-fi is Minority Report, but that isn't exactly a pure AI solution, nor particularly realistic. The coming impact of AI will be on jobs. You don't need godlike AI in order to do human work in all its forms. That's the type of change I think will re-ignite imaginations about AI.
  - stcredzero 10y ago
    What makes you think those who are interested in AI expect we will be able to predict the future with 99% accuracy? I encounter people online and in person who pose logic puzzles involving such a hypothetical entity. I also encounter people online and in person who engage in futurist thinking about where humans would fit into a world with such entities. The coming impact of AI will be on jobs. You don't need godlike AI in order to do human work in all its forms. That's the type of change I think will re-ignite imaginations about AI. In "The Matrix" and sequel movies, human beings seem to react to machines in a way analogous to how we have historically reacted to different ethnic/religious groups. I hope "ignition" isn't apt.

pessimizer 10y ago

AI has been in the public consciousness since well before computers, and quantum computers are vaporware that don't even really promise much that would be meaningful to a non-mathematician.

ZenoArrow 10y ago
>"AI has been in the public consciousness since well before computers" Not to the point where it has a sizeable impact on day-to-day life. >"quantum computers are vaporware" Are you just basing your opinion on D-Wave alone? Plus, they're likely to have a decent impact on crypto, which definitely has meaning beyond mathematicians.