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So not using a tool in the way that the designer intends constitutes abuse now? An interesting perspective for a community with hacker in the name.

by rfrank 10y ago

koolba 10y ago
Haha. Exactly. They're using it exactly as it was intended. Arguably, they're just better at using it.
justinlaster 10y ago
That is a completely disingenuous take on what was stated. The subreddit in question specifically and continually used the tool in a negative, unconstructive manner, which is obviously not what it is designed for. Other subreddits use the mod tool in various ways that don't have anything to do with the explicit purpose of stickied posts, which I pointed out, but notice I didn't label that as abuse.
- rfrank 10y ago
  > The subreddit in question specifically and continually used the tool in a negative, unconstructive manner I don't think that's true, I think you just don't like the content.
  - justinlaster 10y ago
    The admins and a sizable portion, if not the majority, of reddit think it's true. It's also odd that you seem to forget that the content in question was specifically and continually addressed to the rest of the community in an often aggressive manner. Hardly any active and constructive discussion, political or otherwise, took place on those threads. Indeed it's hard for that to ever happen when your mods immediately ban anyone who doesn't fit a certain mold. Notice that after the tool was limited, the frequency at which posts show up on the front page was severely decreased. The posts were not being upvoted because of the content, they were being upvoted specifically to get the thread to the front page and often with no constructive purpose.
    - rfrank 10y ago
      Yes, and that's why they make rules that only impact the_donald, which in turn encourages the_donald to lash out. Because they are being singled out for censorship. I think you've got a pretty selective memory of sticked threads in the_donald, but whatever. Should they be nice to a community that consistently calls it the_dipshit, etc, and whose administrators continually make changes to limit the reach of their voice, and their voice alone? The sticky change came in conjunction with limiting the number of posts it was possible to have on the front page, and a few others. Saying the change to sticky policy is what's keeping the_donald posts off the front page of /r/all would be incorrect.
      - justinlaster 10y ago
        You can stop being dishonest at anytime now. Your timeline is backwards. They were not singled out for "censorship" before their abuse. That doesn't even make sense. Again, please notice the immediate effect of having the tool taken away from the mods. Hardly anything is organically upvoted from that subreddit anymore. >Should they be nice to a community that consistently calls it the_dipshit Why are you going to purposefully ignore why they have that reputation? This is like having a guy in the group that continually does annoying or obnoxious things, gets told off and then tells everyone else to "chill." >the number of posts it was possible to have on the front page, and a few others. Which was global. >Saying the change to sticky policy is what's keeping the_donald posts off the front page of /r/all would be incorrect. Except it is not. They do not reach top spots on /r/all anymore. We're talking about single posts, not the number of posts, but they don't reach as high as they used to.
        rfrank 10y ago
        You can stop being dishonest anytime now. You have a limited perspective. They had to make several internal rule changes specific to them (which they enforce) before any site wide changes happened. They get brigaded and attacked just like any other major political sub, but only they have unique rules made for them. Why are you purposefully ignoring why they act that way? It's like having a guy in the group who thinks it's acceptable to push people around because they have a majority opinion, and double down when people don't accept it. They had several posts at the top of /r/all yesterday [1-4], but I guess they don't go as high. 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gvy1j/the_new_algorithm_was_designed_to_keep_president/ https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gvy1j/the_new_... 2. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gwnwx/reddit_voting_algorithm_has_changed_will_this/ https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gwnwx/reddit_v... 3. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gvazb/boom_trump_announces_sprint_agreement_to_invest/ https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gvazb/boom_tru... 4. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gwe8n/posted_this_to_rgentlemanboners_it_was_down_voted/ https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gwe8n/posted_t...
Terr_ 10y ago
Vote manipulation is against the rules regardless of what tool you use. They just used stickies as their tool.
- rfrank 10y ago
  Stickying a new post so users see / vote on it faster is vote manipulation? Doesn't seem to be the case per reddit itself. [1] 1. https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205192985 https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205192985
  - Terr_ 10y ago
    Oh FFS, did you even read the link!? Here, the last bullet point: > Forming or joining a group that votes together, either on a specific post, a user's posts, posts from a domain, etc. That perfectly describes what was going on with moderators leading the mob by stickying dozens of posts per day, directing them towards their brigading targets.
    - rfrank 10y ago
      So every sub is vote manipulating by nature of being a group that votes together on specific posts? I see. Don't break the site from the sidebar would have been a better option.
      - Terr_ 10y ago
        "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his internet-ego depends on his not understanding it." If you refuse to see the distinction between vote-manipulation and organic vote behavior, then I think we're done here.
        rfrank 10y ago
        "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his internet-ego depends on his not understanding it." If you refuse to see that I simply disagree with the fact their stickying constitutes vote-manipulation, and assume I'm arguing in bad faith because I don't hold the same viewpoint as you, then I think we're done here.

So not using a tool in the way that the designer intends constitutes abuse now? An interesting perspective for a community with hacker in the name.

by rfrank 10y ago

So not using a tool in the way that the designer intends constitutes abuse now? An interesting perspective for a community with hacker in the name.

koolba 10y ago

Haha. Exactly. They're using it exactly as it was intended. Arguably, they're just better at using it.

justinlaster 10y ago

That is a completely disingenuous take on what was stated. The subreddit in question specifically and continually used the tool in a negative, unconstructive manner, which is obviously not what it is designed for. Other subreddits use the mod tool in various ways that don't have anything to do with the explicit purpose of stickied posts, which I pointed out, but notice I didn't label that as abuse.

rfrank 10y ago
> The subreddit in question specifically and continually used the tool in a negative, unconstructive manner I don't think that's true, I think you just don't like the content.
- justinlaster 10y ago
  The admins and a sizable portion, if not the majority, of reddit think it's true. It's also odd that you seem to forget that the content in question was specifically and continually addressed to the rest of the community in an often aggressive manner. Hardly any active and constructive discussion, political or otherwise, took place on those threads. Indeed it's hard for that to ever happen when your mods immediately ban anyone who doesn't fit a certain mold. Notice that after the tool was limited, the frequency at which posts show up on the front page was severely decreased. The posts were not being upvoted because of the content, they were being upvoted specifically to get the thread to the front page and often with no constructive purpose.
  - rfrank 10y ago
    Yes, and that's why they make rules that only impact the_donald, which in turn encourages the_donald to lash out. Because they are being singled out for censorship. I think you've got a pretty selective memory of sticked threads in the_donald, but whatever. Should they be nice to a community that consistently calls it the_dipshit, etc, and whose administrators continually make changes to limit the reach of their voice, and their voice alone? The sticky change came in conjunction with limiting the number of posts it was possible to have on the front page, and a few others. Saying the change to sticky policy is what's keeping the_donald posts off the front page of /r/all would be incorrect.
    - justinlaster 10y ago
      You can stop being dishonest at anytime now. Your timeline is backwards. They were not singled out for "censorship" before their abuse. That doesn't even make sense. Again, please notice the immediate effect of having the tool taken away from the mods. Hardly anything is organically upvoted from that subreddit anymore. >Should they be nice to a community that consistently calls it the_dipshit Why are you going to purposefully ignore why they have that reputation? This is like having a guy in the group that continually does annoying or obnoxious things, gets told off and then tells everyone else to "chill." >the number of posts it was possible to have on the front page, and a few others. Which was global. >Saying the change to sticky policy is what's keeping the_donald posts off the front page of /r/all would be incorrect. Except it is not. They do not reach top spots on /r/all anymore. We're talking about single posts, not the number of posts, but they don't reach as high as they used to.
      - rfrank 10y ago
        You can stop being dishonest anytime now. You have a limited perspective. They had to make several internal rule changes specific to them (which they enforce) before any site wide changes happened. They get brigaded and attacked just like any other major political sub, but only they have unique rules made for them. Why are you purposefully ignoring why they act that way? It's like having a guy in the group who thinks it's acceptable to push people around because they have a majority opinion, and double down when people don't accept it. They had several posts at the top of /r/all yesterday [1-4], but I guess they don't go as high. 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gvy1j/the_new_algorithm_was_designed_to_keep_president/ https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gvy1j/the_new_... 2. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gwnwx/reddit_voting_algorithm_has_changed_will_this/ https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gwnwx/reddit_v... 3. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gvazb/boom_trump_announces_sprint_agreement_to_invest/ https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gvazb/boom_tru... 4. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gwe8n/posted_this_to_rgentlemanboners_it_was_down_voted/ https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gwe8n/posted_t...

Terr_ 10y ago

Vote manipulation is against the rules regardless of what tool you use. They just used stickies as their tool.

rfrank 10y ago
Stickying a new post so users see / vote on it faster is vote manipulation? Doesn't seem to be the case per reddit itself. [1] 1. https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205192985 https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205192985
- Terr_ 10y ago
  Oh FFS, did you even read the link!? Here, the last bullet point: > Forming or joining a group that votes together, either on a specific post, a user's posts, posts from a domain, etc. That perfectly describes what was going on with moderators leading the mob by stickying dozens of posts per day, directing them towards their brigading targets.
  - rfrank 10y ago
    So every sub is vote manipulating by nature of being a group that votes together on specific posts? I see. Don't break the site from the sidebar would have been a better option.
    - Terr_ 10y ago
      "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his internet-ego depends on his not understanding it." If you refuse to see the distinction between vote-manipulation and organic vote behavior, then I think we're done here.
      - rfrank 10y ago
        "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his internet-ego depends on his not understanding it." If you refuse to see that I simply disagree with the fact their stickying constitutes vote-manipulation, and assume I'm arguing in bad faith because I don't hold the same viewpoint as you, then I think we're done here.