4 ms·

>we experienced on a constant basis people not watching out for us, stepping in our way of travel, not respecting us as human beings This seems like an exagger

>we experienced on a constant basis people not watching out for us, stepping in our way of travel, not respecting us as human beings This seems like an exaggeration. How does this differ from your daily life? Are people wonderfully warm to you randomly and for no reason? This seems like the norm here to me. Most of us are stuck in our heads and in our own little worlds and miss a lot of whats going around outside of us. That doesn't make us bad people. Personally, I find it difficult to engage people with handicaps or other obvious health issues. I don't want them to feel like I'm gawking or staring. So I look away. Perhaps that's why people weren't looking you in the eye as much. Perhaps us flawed people don't see you as 'not human' but we just don't want to offend you or make a spectacle out of you. Also those new-ish electric scooters are almost whisper quiet. I've been at the grocery store many times where I blocked someone like this. I literally cannot hear them come up behind me like I would, say, a woman's high heeled shoe on tile. I'm sorry but you'll need to speak up if I'm in your way. I'm not psychic. I think you might be projecting a narrative here that fits your personal politics, but may not really be true at all. Its easy to generalize random people out in public as assholes, but I think the idea that there's this agreement that we all should be rude to wheelchair bound people is ridiculous. If anything I see strangers trip over themselves to open doors for them and such. I see strangers ask to help blind people cross the street here in Chicago fairly often and very often on public trans. I see a lot altruism with the disabled in general. I think perhaps you should consider alternate theories to explain what you think you're perceiving.

cr0sh 10y ago
To address your points: I wouldn't say that in my day-to-day life people are "wonderfully warm" to me randomly - but they do acknowledge me as a person, they see that I am there, and they aren't anxious (or whatever) to look at me. But in a chair - at an Expo dedicated to products for the differently-abled of all places - things were different. Maybe what you say might be the reason - but again, many of these people were caregivers and salespeople for companies marketing products to people with chairs and needs. In the course of working with my friend, and meeting with people who have different abilities and needs, many have impressed upon me how they themselves are perceived as lesser than able-bodied individuals. Many had this perspective after being in an accident or having come into a condition that necessitated the use of a chair later in life, so they knew how they were treated before by others, and how they are now treated. In fact, that's how my friend came to be doing what he does; his brother came down with a condition, literally in the prime of his life. My friend saw how people treated him, and wanted to do something to alleviate this - so he turned to customizing chairs, and did so for his brother, and found that people would then talk -to- him - not around him. It was like the "cool chair" was an icebreaker or something; it eventually led to the non-profit, but making custom chairs is his real passion. These people are more offended - and disappointed - by other not making eye contact, or talking with them - as if they aren't there. Many just want to be seen and acknowledged, like we all do. Regarding the quietness of scooters and chairs - yes, they are insanely quiet, and in normal day-to-day situations, that can be a problem even for people who wouldn't think or dream of being a problem for those in the chairs. Perfectly understandable, but it is something that needs to have greater awareness made about. Much like there are campaigns for "watch for motorcyclists" - we need the same kind of awareness for those in these quiet chairs. My friend and I have experimented with mods to make chairs more "visible" or "audible", but we are also at odds with the manufacturers of these chairs at times (some of the things we'd like to do are near to impossible because we can't get access to the chair's "internals" - for good reason, ultimately). Finally, I agree that not everyone, or even most people, is out to be "assholes" to those in chairs. But again, remember that I experienced all of this at an Abilities Expo - one place where I would think people would be -more- accommodating, not at the regular base-level, or less. Furthermore, I still can't discount the experiences of those who actually use these chairs on a day-to-day basis. While I acknowledge that alternate theories are possible and likely in many cases, I still think there is a widespread, perhaps unconscious "something" that causes people to act differently around those who are using such mobility devices.
- drzaiusapelord 10y ago
  >Much like there are campaigns for "watch for motorcyclists" That's because cars moving at 30+ mph can kill a cyclist. Asking you to peep up when I'm blocking the cheerios doesn't need a similar campaign. Its on you to say 'excuse me' just like everyone else does. The disabled people I know want to be treated like everyone else. I don't think you need to agonize over how they ask to get the cheerios here. It really does feel like you're looking for things to get offended at. Considering how little time you've spent in the chair, I suspect your level of expertise and experience just isn't there to make sweeping generalizations about society. If you internalize an "everyone is an asshole" attitude then you'll see it, but its ultimately confirmation bias at work here.
  - cr0sh 10y ago
    > If you internalize an "everyone is an asshole" attitude then you'll see it, but its ultimately confirmation bias at work here. I don't believe that everyone is an asshole, but I do think that the ratio of assholes to non-assholes is higher than it needs to be. Then again, I do live in Arizona, which probably has something to do with it, unfortunately.
DanBC 10y ago
> So I look away. You treat wheelchair users differently than you do other people, and when they say "you're treating me differently, stop doing that" you say people are exaggerating and projecting.

cr0sh 10y ago

To address your points: I wouldn't say that in my day-to-day life people are "wonderfully warm" to me randomly - but they do acknowledge me as a person, they see that I am there, and they aren't anxious (or whatever) to look at me. But in a chair - at an Expo dedicated to products for the differently-abled of all places - things were different. Maybe what you say might be the reason - but again, many of these people were caregivers and salespeople for companies marketing products to people with chairs and needs. In the course of working with my friend, and meeting with people who have different abilities and needs, many have impressed upon me how they themselves are perceived as lesser than able-bodied individuals. Many had this perspective after being in an accident or having come into a condition that necessitated the use of a chair later in life, so they knew how they were treated before by others, and how they are now treated. In fact, that's how my friend came to be doing what he does; his brother came down with a condition, literally in the prime of his life. My friend saw how people treated him, and wanted to do something to alleviate this - so he turned to customizing chairs, and did so for his brother, and found that people would then talk -to- him - not around him. It was like the "cool chair" was an icebreaker or something; it eventually led to the non-profit, but making custom chairs is his real passion. These people are more offended - and disappointed - by other not making eye contact, or talking with them - as if they aren't there. Many just want to be seen and acknowledged, like we all do. Regarding the quietness of scooters and chairs - yes, they are insanely quiet, and in normal day-to-day situations, that can be a problem even for people who wouldn't think or dream of being a problem for those in the chairs. Perfectly understandable, but it is something that needs to have greater awareness made about. Much like there are campaigns for "watch for motorcyclists" - we need the same kind of awareness for those in these quiet chairs. My friend and I have experimented with mods to make chairs more "visible" or "audible", but we are also at odds with the manufacturers of these chairs at times (some of the things we'd like to do are near to impossible because we can't get access to the chair's "internals" - for good reason, ultimately). Finally, I agree that not everyone, or even most people, is out to be "assholes" to those in chairs. But again, remember that I experienced all of this at an Abilities Expo - one place where I would think people would be -more- accommodating, not at the regular base-level, or less. Furthermore, I still can't discount the experiences of those who actually use these chairs on a day-to-day basis. While I acknowledge that alternate theories are possible and likely in many cases, I still think there is a widespread, perhaps unconscious "something" that causes people to act differently around those who are using such mobility devices.

drzaiusapelord 10y ago
>Much like there are campaigns for "watch for motorcyclists" That's because cars moving at 30+ mph can kill a cyclist. Asking you to peep up when I'm blocking the cheerios doesn't need a similar campaign. Its on you to say 'excuse me' just like everyone else does. The disabled people I know want to be treated like everyone else. I don't think you need to agonize over how they ask to get the cheerios here. It really does feel like you're looking for things to get offended at. Considering how little time you've spent in the chair, I suspect your level of expertise and experience just isn't there to make sweeping generalizations about society. If you internalize an "everyone is an asshole" attitude then you'll see it, but its ultimately confirmation bias at work here.
- cr0sh 10y ago
  > If you internalize an "everyone is an asshole" attitude then you'll see it, but its ultimately confirmation bias at work here. I don't believe that everyone is an asshole, but I do think that the ratio of assholes to non-assholes is higher than it needs to be. Then again, I do live in Arizona, which probably has something to do with it, unfortunately.

DanBC 10y ago

> So I look away. You treat wheelchair users differently than you do other people, and when they say "you're treating me differently, stop doing that" you say people are exaggerating and projecting.