7 ms·

Nice writeup, but calling Dosa, Appam and Iddiappam "Breads" is more than a stretch. None of these 3 have the major ingredients of what makes a bread. And it's

Nice writeup, but calling Dosa, Appam and Iddiappam "Breads" is more than a stretch. None of these 3 have the major ingredients of what makes a bread. And it's missing the most important Indian bread - the Naan (despite the tagline saying "go beyond the Naan"). 1) Dosa - Crepe made from fermented lentil & rice paste 2) Appam - Rice pancake 3) Iddiappam - Steamed rice noodles. None of these are anywhere close to the traditional Bread as we know them.

redditmigrant 10y ago
Naan is definitely the most famous Indian bread, but the one that most Indians, especially in the north consume regularly is the roti,chapatti etc.
- vertex-four 10y ago
  It's not consumed often in the south either - in at least Tamil Nadu and Kerala, most common is chapatti or the "Malabar" parotta (but more common than that is just to skip the bread and eat rice). Naan is cooked in a tandoor, so it's only served at places which serve tandoori chicken, which is not many places.
  - vram22 10y ago
    Actually tandoors (for making both tandoori roti and naan and tandoori chicken, chicken tikka, etc.) became quite common in restaurants in medium to large Indian cities some years ago. In fact I used to regret that you could not get the regular plain chapatis and rotis in restaurants (except for cheaper messes or dining halls); it became so that tandoori roti or naan was the only option even in any average or hole-in-the-wall restaurant.
    - vertex-four 10y ago
      Huh, interesting - I left India some years ago, so I must've missed out on that.
bbgm 10y ago
Naan is not the most important bread. About the only time I've eaten naan (growing up mostly in India) is at restaurants. At home it's always roti, parathas, or poori.
jasim 10y ago
Only if you believe that there is a canonical definition of bread, which refers to the things made out of wheat flour, whose only acceptable meaning is what the western hemisphere thinks of as bread. Dosa, Appam, and Idiappam are breads, even though even in South India, if you ask for "bread" from your local grocer, they'd give you sliced loaves. We use the word bread to refer to these other staple breakfast dishes in an anglicized context, because it maps better than any other word to the meaning we want to convey. Which is why restaurant menus categorizes them under "Indian Breads", and if you accept that language is mutable and responds to how people use it, this is as good an alternative meaning as it can get.
- sean_patel 10y ago
  > canonical definition of bread. Love it! Spoken like a true engineer :) The process of Baking is what makes a Bread a bread. If it's not baked in an oven, it's not Bread. I didn't make that up, that what has defined a Bread since the beginning of time :) Dosa is fried on a stovetop pan. Appam is cooked on a stovetop pan. Iddiappam is steamed on stovetop using water. None of these are baked at any time in the process.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    Cornbread, traditionally cooked in a skillet, isn't a bread? Most people I know would call English muffins a bread product.
    - sean_patel 10y ago
      > Cornbread, traditionally cooked in a skillet, isn't a bread? It's not. Americans have a strangely funny way of naming things. Only in America would you find "Orange Juice" that would say in the ingredients. "Contains no juice. Artifically flavored and coloured." English muffins are baked goods, not breads.
      - greglindahl 10y ago
        Source for the "orange juice" claim? You're thinking of products like "Sunny Delight Beverages Orange", which you should note does not call itself "orange juice". Even in the US, that's not allowed. Skillet bread, on the other hand, is bread, as are english muffins.
tptacek 10y ago
What are the three major ingredients of a "bread"? Isn't a dough any hard-set culinary foam created by somehow cooking a relatively homogenous, ultimately water-based dough? Were you thinking of "flour, water, and leavening"? Flour is any grain processed so as to make breadmaking easier. All these recipes include water. There are hundreds of different unleavened breads, and many of these breads are yeast-leavened. Crepes and pancakes are (usually) quickbreads. A Chinese scallion pancake might not fit that bill (and might not be a quickbread), but Dosas clearly do. The article carefully explains why naan isn't included: it's not an Indian bread. Naan is a staple throughout central Asia, which is where India imported it from.
- sean_patel 10y ago
  The TOP 4 Ingredients in a basic "Bread" are a basic bread Flour, Water, Yeast and Salt. Granted the ones I called out have 3 of the 4, but the main characteristics of something that's called Bread is the process i.e. Baking. If it's not baked in an oven, it's not Bread. I didn't make that up, that what has defined a Bread since the beginning of time :)
  - tptacek 10y ago
    Not all breads are leavened at all, and not all leavened breads are leavened with yeast. Lots of breads have no salt --- Tuscan, for instance --- but I think most Indian breads do. All breads have some kind of "flour" (which again is just any plant substance processed to make it easy to make a dough out of) and some water-based liquid. Not all breads are baked! Lots of them are griddled, including several Indian breads that nobody is contesting the bread-y-ness of, and lots of cultures have fried breads (bannock bread for instance). I think the only commonality of bread cooking techniques is that they're all dry-heat cooked... but then you get to Chinese bao and you have to wonder about that too.
  - msrpotus 10y ago
    Pita isn't necessarily baked; is it in some other category?
    - 10y ago
vram22 10y ago
>it's missing the most important Indian bread - the Naan That description is at least somewhat subjective. I would say Indians in India tend to eat roti (tandoori roti) as much as naan, and plain roti and chapati even more (the latter two are considered home foods, so not seen much at restaurants). Naan tends to have a slightly higher-end image (IMO/IME) and I've seen foreigners in India tending to order naan more often than rotis (particularly garlic naan, which seems to be a favorite of many). My guess it that it has been marketed to them more than tandoori rotis in the glossy magazines. on planes, etc., plus it might be/look more close to some Western breads (e.g. garlic bread like garlic naan, also the shape of naan is a bit like a French bread, maybe), so a bit more familiar to them. But in India plenty of people eat and relish tandoori rotis, plain rotis (which are roasted on a tava in the house, not an outdoor tandoor), and chapatis (thinner version of plain rotis, but also allowed to quickly puff up on the open flame after roasting on tava). IMO tandoori roti tastes better than naan, which is made of maida (refined wheat flour). And all of the above taste pretty good in slightly differing ways (though all except naan are made of whole-wheat flour).
- vram22 10y ago
  >And all of the above taste pretty good particularly with an alu matar or matar paneer or a dal tadka :) http://jugad2.blogspot.in/2011/05/got-tadka.html http://jugad2.blogspot.in/2011/05/got-tadka.html
- cdr 10y ago
  Naan is everywhere in the US. I'd expect tourists preferring naan is pure familiarity. I see naan at every grocery store, much like sushi. Or pita, thinking of breads.
alphakappa 10y ago
Naan while being common in restaurants, is not common in households. It requires a specialized oven and isn't easy to make at home. Roti/Chappati/Parathas are the common ones. There are regional differences too - Naans are uncommon in South Indian restaurants. The staple one in this category in Kerala is a Barotta which is a flaky bread similar to the Thai rotis.
perseusprime11 10y ago
If Pizza is an Italian bread then we can call Dosa as Indian bread. Otherwise I agree this is a stretch

redditmigrant 10y ago

Naan is definitely the most famous Indian bread, but the one that most Indians, especially in the north consume regularly is the roti,chapatti etc.

vertex-four 10y ago
It's not consumed often in the south either - in at least Tamil Nadu and Kerala, most common is chapatti or the "Malabar" parotta (but more common than that is just to skip the bread and eat rice). Naan is cooked in a tandoor, so it's only served at places which serve tandoori chicken, which is not many places.
- vram22 10y ago
  Actually tandoors (for making both tandoori roti and naan and tandoori chicken, chicken tikka, etc.) became quite common in restaurants in medium to large Indian cities some years ago. In fact I used to regret that you could not get the regular plain chapatis and rotis in restaurants (except for cheaper messes or dining halls); it became so that tandoori roti or naan was the only option even in any average or hole-in-the-wall restaurant.
  - vertex-four 10y ago
    Huh, interesting - I left India some years ago, so I must've missed out on that.

bbgm 10y ago

Naan is not the most important bread. About the only time I've eaten naan (growing up mostly in India) is at restaurants. At home it's always roti, parathas, or poori.

jasim 10y ago

Only if you believe that there is a canonical definition of bread, which refers to the things made out of wheat flour, whose only acceptable meaning is what the western hemisphere thinks of as bread. Dosa, Appam, and Idiappam are breads, even though even in South India, if you ask for "bread" from your local grocer, they'd give you sliced loaves. We use the word bread to refer to these other staple breakfast dishes in an anglicized context, because it maps better than any other word to the meaning we want to convey. Which is why restaurant menus categorizes them under "Indian Breads", and if you accept that language is mutable and responds to how people use it, this is as good an alternative meaning as it can get.

sean_patel 10y ago
> canonical definition of bread. Love it! Spoken like a true engineer :) The process of Baking is what makes a Bread a bread. If it's not baked in an oven, it's not Bread. I didn't make that up, that what has defined a Bread since the beginning of time :) Dosa is fried on a stovetop pan. Appam is cooked on a stovetop pan. Iddiappam is steamed on stovetop using water. None of these are baked at any time in the process.
- DanBC 10y ago
  Cornbread, traditionally cooked in a skillet, isn't a bread? Most people I know would call English muffins a bread product.
  - sean_patel 10y ago
    > Cornbread, traditionally cooked in a skillet, isn't a bread? It's not. Americans have a strangely funny way of naming things. Only in America would you find "Orange Juice" that would say in the ingredients. "Contains no juice. Artifically flavored and coloured." English muffins are baked goods, not breads.
    - greglindahl 10y ago
      Source for the "orange juice" claim? You're thinking of products like "Sunny Delight Beverages Orange", which you should note does not call itself "orange juice". Even in the US, that's not allowed. Skillet bread, on the other hand, is bread, as are english muffins.

tptacek 10y ago

What are the three major ingredients of a "bread"? Isn't a dough any hard-set culinary foam created by somehow cooking a relatively homogenous, ultimately water-based dough? Were you thinking of "flour, water, and leavening"? Flour is any grain processed so as to make breadmaking easier. All these recipes include water. There are hundreds of different unleavened breads, and many of these breads are yeast-leavened. Crepes and pancakes are (usually) quickbreads. A Chinese scallion pancake might not fit that bill (and might not be a quickbread), but Dosas clearly do. The article carefully explains why naan isn't included: it's not an Indian bread. Naan is a staple throughout central Asia, which is where India imported it from.

sean_patel 10y ago
The TOP 4 Ingredients in a basic "Bread" are a basic bread Flour, Water, Yeast and Salt. Granted the ones I called out have 3 of the 4, but the main characteristics of something that's called Bread is the process i.e. Baking. If it's not baked in an oven, it's not Bread. I didn't make that up, that what has defined a Bread since the beginning of time :)
- tptacek 10y ago
  Not all breads are leavened at all, and not all leavened breads are leavened with yeast. Lots of breads have no salt --- Tuscan, for instance --- but I think most Indian breads do. All breads have some kind of "flour" (which again is just any plant substance processed to make it easy to make a dough out of) and some water-based liquid. Not all breads are baked! Lots of them are griddled, including several Indian breads that nobody is contesting the bread-y-ness of, and lots of cultures have fried breads (bannock bread for instance). I think the only commonality of bread cooking techniques is that they're all dry-heat cooked... but then you get to Chinese bao and you have to wonder about that too.
- msrpotus 10y ago
  Pita isn't necessarily baked; is it in some other category?
  - 10y ago

vram22 10y ago

>it's missing the most important Indian bread - the Naan That description is at least somewhat subjective. I would say Indians in India tend to eat roti (tandoori roti) as much as naan, and plain roti and chapati even more (the latter two are considered home foods, so not seen much at restaurants). Naan tends to have a slightly higher-end image (IMO/IME) and I've seen foreigners in India tending to order naan more often than rotis (particularly garlic naan, which seems to be a favorite of many). My guess it that it has been marketed to them more than tandoori rotis in the glossy magazines. on planes, etc., plus it might be/look more close to some Western breads (e.g. garlic bread like garlic naan, also the shape of naan is a bit like a French bread, maybe), so a bit more familiar to them. But in India plenty of people eat and relish tandoori rotis, plain rotis (which are roasted on a tava in the house, not an outdoor tandoor), and chapatis (thinner version of plain rotis, but also allowed to quickly puff up on the open flame after roasting on tava). IMO tandoori roti tastes better than naan, which is made of maida (refined wheat flour). And all of the above taste pretty good in slightly differing ways (though all except naan are made of whole-wheat flour).

vram22 10y ago
>And all of the above taste pretty good particularly with an alu matar or matar paneer or a dal tadka :) http://jugad2.blogspot.in/2011/05/got-tadka.html http://jugad2.blogspot.in/2011/05/got-tadka.html
cdr 10y ago
Naan is everywhere in the US. I'd expect tourists preferring naan is pure familiarity. I see naan at every grocery store, much like sushi. Or pita, thinking of breads.

alphakappa 10y ago

Naan while being common in restaurants, is not common in households. It requires a specialized oven and isn't easy to make at home. Roti/Chappati/Parathas are the common ones. There are regional differences too - Naans are uncommon in South Indian restaurants. The staple one in this category in Kerala is a Barotta which is a flaky bread similar to the Thai rotis.

perseusprime11 10y ago

If Pizza is an Italian bread then we can call Dosa as Indian bread. Otherwise I agree this is a stretch