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Counterpoint: > " I’ve had hundreds of people brought to me in the emergency room after getting CPR. Exactly one, a healthy man who’d had no heart troubles (fo

by SeanDav 10y ago

Counterpoint: > " I’ve had hundreds of people brought to me in the emergency room after getting CPR. Exactly one, a healthy man who’d had no heart troubles (for those who want specifics, he had a “tension pneumothorax”), walked out of the hospital." Of course, the success rate (where success is defined as the patient going on to live a reasonably normal life) of CPR performed in the field might well be much higher than CPR performed in the hospital.

yaakov34 10y ago
I actually don't disagree with that, although the statistics will vary depending on the population served by this particular hospital (e.g. hospital near a ski slope which sees a high number of relatively healthy people who collapsed due to an accident or hidden medical issue will probably have better rates). Unfortunately, the "median" resuscitation call, in my own experience, is for something like "77-year-old cancer patient who is unconscious". We get there and see that there is no pulse, we have to go through the motions if there is no DNR order, but everyone knows it's hopeless, since it's not like we can cure cancer while we do chest compressions. Sometimes we can get a pulse back, but we know - although not "officially" - that the patient will be pronounced dead at the hospital within a few hours. Now I will say one thing here - it is often easier for the family to go through this process, since they can feel that "they've done everything till the very end", although from the point of view of medical practice it would be better to have a DNR order; that's really the type of situation that these orders are for. But to reiterate - if you don't actually have disease that you know of, I would personally recommend giving yourself a chance, like that guy with the pneumothorax got. it's up to you, of course. Though I would say that a living will is probably more useful for most relatively healthy people than a DNR order, since you can end up in a situation in which you are unable to function without any resuscitation being involved. I think a lot of the people commenting in this thread are really thinking of these more long-term situations, rather than resuscitation, which is an on-the-spot decision.
- earcaraxe 10y ago
  Just to clarify he was saying that the guy with the pneumothorax walked out because he didn't need CPR in the first place
Johnny555 10y ago
I think he was talking about field CPR "...brought to me in the emergency room after getting CPR..."
pvaldes 10y ago
Saving life has priority over a few broken bones. If someone has a tension pneumotorax you can detect it easily when you do the CPR, you can see it and can hear it, a pneumo can even stain your gloves with pink, so this is probably a false problem.
knodi123 10y ago
> I’ve had hundreds of people brought to me in the emergency room after getting CPR. Exactly one, a healthy man who’d had no heart troubles (for those who want specifics, he had a “tension pneumothorax”), walked out of the hospital." I thought they required surgical patients to be wheeled out, regardless.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  Some hospitals require everyone admitted to be wheeled out, or minimally have a nurse with a wheelchair walking next to you - regardless of why you were in the hospital. But alternatively, most outpatient surgical facilities don't have this sort of thing. And furthermore, not every hospital has this sort of rule either.

by SeanDav 10y ago

yaakov34 10y ago

I actually don't disagree with that, although the statistics will vary depending on the population served by this particular hospital (e.g. hospital near a ski slope which sees a high number of relatively healthy people who collapsed due to an accident or hidden medical issue will probably have better rates). Unfortunately, the "median" resuscitation call, in my own experience, is for something like "77-year-old cancer patient who is unconscious". We get there and see that there is no pulse, we have to go through the motions if there is no DNR order, but everyone knows it's hopeless, since it's not like we can cure cancer while we do chest compressions. Sometimes we can get a pulse back, but we know - although not "officially" - that the patient will be pronounced dead at the hospital within a few hours. Now I will say one thing here - it is often easier for the family to go through this process, since they can feel that "they've done everything till the very end", although from the point of view of medical practice it would be better to have a DNR order; that's really the type of situation that these orders are for. But to reiterate - if you don't actually have disease that you know of, I would personally recommend giving yourself a chance, like that guy with the pneumothorax got. it's up to you, of course. Though I would say that a living will is probably more useful for most relatively healthy people than a DNR order, since you can end up in a situation in which you are unable to function without any resuscitation being involved. I think a lot of the people commenting in this thread are really thinking of these more long-term situations, rather than resuscitation, which is an on-the-spot decision.

earcaraxe 10y ago
Just to clarify he was saying that the guy with the pneumothorax walked out because he didn't need CPR in the first place

Johnny555 10y ago

I think he was talking about field CPR "...brought to me in the emergency room after getting CPR..."

pvaldes 10y ago

Saving life has priority over a few broken bones. If someone has a tension pneumotorax you can detect it easily when you do the CPR, you can see it and can hear it, a pneumo can even stain your gloves with pink, so this is probably a false problem.

knodi123 10y ago

> I’ve had hundreds of people brought to me in the emergency room after getting CPR. Exactly one, a healthy man who’d had no heart troubles (for those who want specifics, he had a “tension pneumothorax”), walked out of the hospital." I thought they required surgical patients to be wheeled out, regardless.

Broken_Hippo 10y ago
Some hospitals require everyone admitted to be wheeled out, or minimally have a nurse with a wheelchair walking next to you - regardless of why you were in the hospital. But alternatively, most outpatient surgical facilities don't have this sort of thing. And furthermore, not every hospital has this sort of rule either.